On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Andre Broersen <[email protected]>wrote:
> Platt to Andre: > > That helps, a little. Just to clarify my positions in your mind. 1) I don't > support religion. > > Andre: > We can quibble into eternity what you mean by 'religion' and I don't feel > like doing that. > You have made it very clear over the years that you do support the > existence of a god, a designer a creator. In conventional jargon this makes > you an adherent of theism. You know the MOQ's point of view. > Platt Like Pirsig I believe in the undefined creative moral force of Dynamic Quality. If you want to call that theism, be my guest. I don't. If, like science, you want to call Chance the creator, be my guest. I don't. > > Platt: > > 2) I do support the free market system (like Pirsig) > > Andre: > Pirsig does NOT give unqualified support to the free market system. Pirsig > assigns its success to it being a 'Dynamic institution'. But it is an > institution running amok because it is guided by 'mindless > traditions'...social level 'virtues' which support the interests of 'the > conservatives'.In their (and thus your) defense of it 'They are just doing > the usual cover-up for the rich in their age-old exploitation of the poor'. > These patterns Pirsig identifies and debunks as a continuation of > 'Victorian social economic patterns' and this makes them LESS moral than > socialist intellectual economic patterns (Pirsig's emphasis).(LILA,pp224-5) > Platt Like DMB and others, you are in denial about Pirsig calling the free market "superior" to socialism. He doesn't say capitalism has "run amok." He does say socialist cities are "dull." Read it an weep. > You Platt, are completely blind to this debunking process. You do not > accept the MOQ's levels of morality. You do not accept that within the MOQ > intellectually guided economic patterns are more moral than Victorian social > economic patterns. You are placing social level patterns above intellectual > patterns and from MOQ reasoning this is an immoral act. > Platt Nonsense. What is there about "superior" you don't understand? > > Platt: > > 3) I do criticize intellectual patterns of value (like Pirsig) > > Andre: > You imply that Pirsig criticizes ALL intellectual patterns of value? Where > do you get this from?? This is not true Platt. Pirsig has criticized one > particularly dominant intellectual pattern of value applied in 'the West'. > Its generic term is 'rationality' which has grown into a view of reality > contained in, what Pirsig has termed 'a subject-object metaphysics'. > > He assigns them value according to their explanatory power. In this way > some intellectual patterns have higher quality than others. He is very > pragmatic as far as this goes. > > If you want to know more about this I refer you to ZMM, LILA, SODV and > Lila's Child (especially the Annotations). > Platt You nailed it. Pirsig criticizes the dominant intellectual pattern, "rationality," the essence of "critical thinking." Thanks for making my point. Now, what other intellectual patterns have higher quality than those based on reason? Please do tell. > > Platt: > > If I have led you to think otherwise, I apologize for not making myself > clear. > > Andre: > Well Platt, having a discussion with you I liken to a dentist treatment. > The difficulty the dentist experiences, the effort that needs to be applied > in an attempt to extract something... .Pfffff. > I really feel you play a hide-and-seek game, a 'catch-me-if-you-can game > which is fun for children but not very appropriate or helpful on a > philosophical discussion site. > > I mean, why not simply say: I believe in God, I love money and fuck the > rest? Platt Why don't you simply say: Platt is a conservative and supports free market capitalism, so I will do whatever I can to slime him. Not what one expects when trying to reach mutual understanding. > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
