Hi dmb, [dmb previously in discussion with Ham]
When we talk about the rejection of SOM, we are not JUST talking about what Pirsig thinks. We're also talking about the history of Modern philosophy. The "observer" that you insist upon has been rejected by whole schools of thought within the West and the rejection of that notion is even more common in the East. More specifically, the pragmatic tradition is predicated on rejecting the very thing you insist upon. And to be very, very, specific, William James rejected that notion more than a hundred years ago in an essay titled "Does Consciousness Exist?". Now, Ham, it would be one thing if you understood the reasons for this rejection SOM. Then you'd be in a position to dispute it and attack it and maybe to put that "observer" back into the picture. Or at least you could try. But you seem quite oblivious to the arguments against SOM, and you act as if nobody had ever tried to tell you this. You see, Pirsig identifies SOM as the root of a serious cultural problem and both of his books are meant to offer an alternative, one that addresses this cultural crisis. [Mark] I have tried previously to provide a way out of SOM. The method is to try to identify the subjective itself, the true subjective. Such identification objectifies it, until you reach it. This may be moving into Bo's camp of release from SOM, but such a thing is possible, and has been taught by philosophies such as Buddhism. It is possible to get there using Western SOM (Modern Philosophy) as well. I haven't read James' essay on consciousness, yet, but it may be pointing in the same direction. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
