Hi Platt
On 15/11/2010 21:50, Platt Holden wrote:
Hi Horse,
All words, numbers, punctuation and other aspects of language are imaginary
symbols, imaginary meaning "not real."
This is a problem of SOM - not MoQ. In MoQ terms symbols are as real as
rocks or dogs. But they are not real in the same way because they are
different patterns of value. But they are 'real' nonetheless.
Or as semanticist S.I. Hayakawa
wrote in his seminal book, "Language in Thought and Action:"
"The habitual confusion of symbols with things symbolized, whether on the
part of individuals or societies, is serious enough at all levels of culture
to provide a perennial human problem. The symbol is not the thing
symbolized; the word is not the thing, the map is not the territory it
stands for."
Which is why the MoQ distinguishes between different levels of patterns
of value. And the Intellectual level is so powerful because it can
create concepts which have no existence except at it's own level and
which are neither subject nor object and relate neither to subject nor
object.
In Lila's Child, Pirsig defines the intellect level as "manipulation of
symbols." Note 25.
Or in other words 'thinking'.
So will you answer my questions?
Have Subjects and Objects now become imaginary symbols.
How can Objects (as per SOM) be imaginary symbols?
Is a rock or a plant or a pig an imaginary symbol?
As it was Pirsig who created SOM (as you have stated) could you show us where
he says that it is it's own level or where he states that it is the level of
imaginary symbols.
Horse
On 15/11/2010 17:10, Platt Holden wrote:
SOM is the level of manipulation of imaginary symbols which are taken by
some to have the same reality as concrete material existence.
--
"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines
or dates by which bills must be paid."
— Frank Zappa
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