On Mar 14, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ham Priday wrote: > Dear Marsha -- > > On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 5:25 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Desires are just a way to ward off one's only certainty: death. >> Desires project existence into the future so one does not have to >> deal with one's fear of death. > > [Marsha, later]: >> Except for the wish to become enlightened, the Buddha has said >> that desire is the source of all suffering. I suppose I needed to >> work this out for myself, because desire has culturally been labeled good. > > [Dan replied]: >> Looking at suffering, it seems that without it there would be no >> evolution, no need for "betterment." Therefore, within the framework >> of the MOQ, suffering is seen as the negative face of Quality. > > As a Quality devotee, how can you dismiss what drives us all toward > "betterness"? > > Is there anything you do, short of an obligatory chore, that is not motivated > by desire? Wanting to paint, listening to music, seeking wisdom, falling in > love, improving your healh, increasing your wealth, satisfying your hunger, > caring for your children, longing for peace -- are these not all examples of > your desiring? > > Indeed, Desire is implicit in Value (Quality) itself. How else but by desire > do we experience it? I make no distinction between what we desire and what > we value. And it astonishes me that an MoQist can only relate desire to > Buddha's pronouncement that it's "the source of all suffering." Can you > explain that to me, Marsha? > > Again, I refer to Socrates who put it this way: "...the man who desires > something desires what is not available to him, and what he doesn¹t already > have in his possession; and what he neither has nor himself is - that which > he lacks - this is what he wants and desires." The cause of of suffering? > Well, not unless yearning and longing are your idea of pain. > > I would hope that you rethink that statement, Marsha. When you do, I suspect > you'll realize that without desire life has no value. And that, indeed, > would be tragic for any of us. > > Of all the responses to your assertion, only David seems to have put desire > into its proper philosophical context: > > [dmb]: >> What we like gets us out of bed each morning and it gets us off >> hot stoves. It's the continuing stimulus that creates the world in >> which we live. > > Amen, > Ham
Greetings Ham, I suggest you check out the second of the Four Noble Truths. You have claimed a familiarity with basic Buddhist tenets. There is an abundance of material to support the fact that longing/desiring/craving is the source of suffering. For me desire is all about illusion, it is not realizing that the object of my desire is a projection, a pattern, a conceptual construct that does not exist out there somewhere separate. Desire creates separation, builds ego or I-ness; it is dualistic through and through. - I paint when I prefer to paint above all other activities. Marsha ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
