Hi Mark, I am sure you are sick of my posts, but I had this article from the interent that might explain more of my understanding of reification from a Buddhist point-of-view. Here's a little bit quoted from the article and the url:
"To reify is usually defined as mistakenly regarding an abstraction as a thing. It is derived from the Latin word res meaning 'thing'. Reification in Western philosophy means treating an abstract belief or hypothetical construct as if it were a concrete, physical entity. In other words, it is the error of treating as a "real thing" something which is not a real thing, but merely an idea. In Buddhist philosophy the concept of reification goes further.Reification means treating any functioning phenomenon as if it were a real, permanent 'thing', rather than an impermanent process." http://seanrobsville.blogspot.com/2009/12/reification-in-buddhism-ultimate-and.html Marsha On May 16, 2011, at 12:51 AM, MarshaV wrote: > > > HI Mark, > > I've read the book and enjoyed it very much. I believe the quote I offered > was by dmb, and not James, and I agree with the quote.. I have not > misunderstood it, but interpret reification through a more Buddhist > presentation. For now I'd like to drop the subject. On Thursday I will be > receiving a houseguest for two weeks, and probably will have little time > for the MD. Until Thursday I will be quite busy with preparations. > > Enjoy the book. > > > Marsha > > > > > > > > > On May 16, 2011, at 12:23 AM, 118 wrote: > >> Hi Marsha, >> Thanks for your posts. To be honest, I have a hard time keeping track >> of what she said he said, all the way down to what James said. >> Currently I am reading through a biography of William James by R. D. >> Richardson (2006). This provides context instead of the philosophy of >> James. It is interesting to read about all the characters involved. >> If it were written slightly differently it would resemble a novel by >> Charles Dickens. James did not have to work, so had plenty of time to >> read all sorts of stuff from Western to Easter philosophies. >> >> Now, about 200 pages in, I am reading what James was writing around >> 1887. He and Alice had finally agreed to marry and during their >> honeymoon he writes a short essay that starts his ideas about >> consciousness. When their son (Henry, of course) was born, his wife >> moves in with her family and James is not allowed to live with them. >> He therefore has more time. His writings are rebuttals to other big >> thinkers at the time. He conceives "The Sentiment of Rationality" >> which is followed by "Rationality, Activity, and Faith", and begins >> his voyage outside of rationality as the sole source of consciousness. >> He speaks of our "Spontaneous Powers", which I interpret as dynamic >> quality. The Metaphysical Club had pretty much ended at that time >> after Chauncey Wright, and James was starting on a new path. He is >> still in his thirties at this time. He seems to align himself with >> the liberal Platonic tradition (not of The Republic, but of the >> Timaeus). He references the "emancipating message of primitive >> Christianity". >> >> He abandons philosophy as the search for truth, stating that it >> doesn't exist. Something we discuss here, and I do my best to >> explain. As James proclaims, such belief is "an exorcism of all >> skepticism as the the pertinency of one's natural faculties." James >> intellectually tries to derive a new form of intellectualism. He is a >> follower of Emerson, and believes firmly in the NOW. Again something >> that I have brought up several times in its relationship to dynamic >> quality. >> >> I am not sure what is meant by your reification, and I do not want to >> misinterpret, so I will not go there. But, dmb may be correct with >> his quote. I wouldn't put it as harshly as what you (he?) state >> below. >> >> So, context is important. We should know why James said certain >> things and the overall attitude of his times. He was desperately >> trying to get a professorship anywhere, and was therefore beholden to >> some in what he wrote. I wouldn't take dmb's quotes too seriously >> since they often seem to be placed in an attempt to elevate. I am >> interested in what others think, not in what they think what others >> think. >> >> There is a lot more than words on a page going on. >> >> Cheers, >> Mark >> >> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 8:24 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Mark, >>> >>> I see reification as a tool too. But as dmb says that James says, >>> "Intellectualism becomes vicious, he said, when concepts are reified, >>> deified and the empirical reality from which they were abstracted in the >>> first place is denigrated as less than real." >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 15, 2011, at 10:54 AM, MarshaV wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Mark, >>>> >>>> Okay... >>>> >>>> I don't remember using my statements as a whip to beat you. >>>> These are merely words. You definitely use a eclectic bunch >>>> of words. You can always ignore mine. >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 15, 2011, at 10:24 AM, 118 wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> The purpose of MoQ (imo) is to provide awareness of the traps >>>>> presented. If the cage is seen as such, one can move beyond it. >>>>> Reification, as you use it, is a tool. We could consider the computer >>>>> to be a cage, but many do not. The separation you mention can be >>>>> destroyed through MoQ. >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 6:46 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> And in this reification process, it is that cage wall that creates >>>>>> separation between the phenomenon/concept and the self when an image, >>>>>> construct or definition is erected and assigned. imho >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To me this quote represents reification, where the cage of a definition >>>>>>> excludes context, intuition and heart. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> RMP: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "... The definition is a cage... You set limits on what a word is. >>>>>>>> You set limits on what your experience is. And those limits, which >>>>>>>> you set in order that you can manipulate these words, are also a cage >>>>>>>> for that word. It can't go beyond it one way or another." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ('The MOQ at Oxford', Part 4: The Church of Reason) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ___ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>> Archives: >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
