HI Mark,
I've read the book and enjoyed it very much. I believe the quote I offered was by dmb, and not James, and I agree with the quote.. I have not misunderstood it, but interpret reification through a more Buddhist presentation. For now I'd like to drop the subject. On Thursday I will be receiving a houseguest for two weeks, and probably will have little time for the MD. Until Thursday I will be quite busy with preparations. Enjoy the book. Marsha On May 16, 2011, at 12:23 AM, 118 wrote: > Hi Marsha, > Thanks for your posts. To be honest, I have a hard time keeping track > of what she said he said, all the way down to what James said. > Currently I am reading through a biography of William James by R. D. > Richardson (2006). This provides context instead of the philosophy of > James. It is interesting to read about all the characters involved. > If it were written slightly differently it would resemble a novel by > Charles Dickens. James did not have to work, so had plenty of time to > read all sorts of stuff from Western to Easter philosophies. > > Now, about 200 pages in, I am reading what James was writing around > 1887. He and Alice had finally agreed to marry and during their > honeymoon he writes a short essay that starts his ideas about > consciousness. When their son (Henry, of course) was born, his wife > moves in with her family and James is not allowed to live with them. > He therefore has more time. His writings are rebuttals to other big > thinkers at the time. He conceives "The Sentiment of Rationality" > which is followed by "Rationality, Activity, and Faith", and begins > his voyage outside of rationality as the sole source of consciousness. > He speaks of our "Spontaneous Powers", which I interpret as dynamic > quality. The Metaphysical Club had pretty much ended at that time > after Chauncey Wright, and James was starting on a new path. He is > still in his thirties at this time. He seems to align himself with > the liberal Platonic tradition (not of The Republic, but of the > Timaeus). He references the "emancipating message of primitive > Christianity". > > He abandons philosophy as the search for truth, stating that it > doesn't exist. Something we discuss here, and I do my best to > explain. As James proclaims, such belief is "an exorcism of all > skepticism as the the pertinency of one's natural faculties." James > intellectually tries to derive a new form of intellectualism. He is a > follower of Emerson, and believes firmly in the NOW. Again something > that I have brought up several times in its relationship to dynamic > quality. > > I am not sure what is meant by your reification, and I do not want to > misinterpret, so I will not go there. But, dmb may be correct with > his quote. I wouldn't put it as harshly as what you (he?) state > below. > > So, context is important. We should know why James said certain > things and the overall attitude of his times. He was desperately > trying to get a professorship anywhere, and was therefore beholden to > some in what he wrote. I wouldn't take dmb's quotes too seriously > since they often seem to be placed in an attempt to elevate. I am > interested in what others think, not in what they think what others > think. > > There is a lot more than words on a page going on. > > Cheers, > Mark > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 8:24 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Mark, >> >> I see reification as a tool too. But as dmb says that James says, >> "Intellectualism becomes vicious, he said, when concepts are reified, >> deified and the empirical reality from which they were abstracted in the >> first place is denigrated as less than real." >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> On May 15, 2011, at 10:54 AM, MarshaV wrote: >> >>> >>> Mark, >>> >>> Okay... >>> >>> I don't remember using my statements as a whip to beat you. >>> These are merely words. You definitely use a eclectic bunch >>> of words. You can always ignore mine. >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> On May 15, 2011, at 10:24 AM, 118 wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> The purpose of MoQ (imo) is to provide awareness of the traps >>>> presented. If the cage is seen as such, one can move beyond it. >>>> Reification, as you use it, is a tool. We could consider the computer >>>> to be a cage, but many do not. The separation you mention can be >>>> destroyed through MoQ. >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 6:46 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And in this reification process, it is that cage wall that creates >>>>> separation between the phenomenon/concept and the self when an image, >>>>> construct or definition is erected and assigned. imho >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To me this quote represents reification, where the cage of a definition >>>>>> excludes context, intuition and heart. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> RMP: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "... The definition is a cage... You set limits on what a word is. >>>>>>> You set limits on what your experience is. And those limits, which you >>>>>>> set in order that you can manipulate these words, are also a cage for >>>>>>> that word. It can't go beyond it one way or another." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ('The MOQ at Oxford', Part 4: The Church of Reason) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
