dmb said to Steve:On top of practical matters of moral and legal responsibility
there are also concrete situations like the one we're in right now. Are we free
to adopt a point of view on these issues or are we caused to believe the things
we do by forces beyond our control. Is your perspective culturally,
psychologically or physically determined? And if it is so determined, on what
basis can I praise or condemn you for seeing it that way?
Steve replied:
None at all. Why would you want to praise or condemn someone for their view on
free will/determinism? First of all, that would be trying to apply a social
level tool of control over someone's intellectual patterns. That's an MOQ
no-no. The intellectual concern is whether it is true or false.
dmb says:
Unlike you, I do not limit morals or moral responsibility to the social level.
You don't seem to realize that the determinism you're advocating a moral
nightmare wherein Hitler is no more morally culpable than a tornado. It's
nihilism. Unlike the MOQ, which says static patterns are moral all the way
down, you're saying there are no values at all.
Steve said:
... Our system depends on a notion of causality. What gets added to this system
with the common sense notion of free will is the bad idea of justice as
punishment.
dmb says:
Well, no. Our notions of justice may or may not lead to punishment. Holding a
person responsible for their actions doesn't necessarily lead to blood lust or
revenge. But moral responsibility is necessarily precluded by denying free
will. There is no logical connection between compassion and determinism either.
I find your reasoning is very far from airtight. In fact, you're already sunk
and sitting at the bottom of the sea.
I don't see any reason why I should reply to your childish name-calling, so
most of your reply was deleted. If there was an actual point in there, then
feel free to repeat it, hopefully in grown-up language.
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