Hi dmb,
> Steve replied: > ...Why would you want to praise or condemn someone for their view on free > will/determinism? First of all, that would be trying to apply a social level > tool of control over someone's intellectual patterns. That's an MOQ no-no. > The intellectual concern is whether it is true or false. > > dmb says: > Unlike you, I do not limit morals or moral responsibility to the social > level. You don't seem to realize that the determinism you're advocating a > moral nightmare wherein Hitler is no more morally culpable than a tornado. > It's nihilism. Unlike the MOQ, which says static patterns are moral all the > way down, you're saying there are no values at all. Steve: Unlike me? Why would you think that I limit morals to the social level? All I said is that praise and blame are social patterns, ad they are. When I said that the intellectual concern is true/false, I follow the MOQ in thinking that that too is a moral concern. It's just a different level, so a different sort of moral concern. > Steve said: > ... Our system depends on a notion of causality. What gets added to this > system with the common sense notion of free will is the bad idea of justice > as punishment. > > dmb says: > Well, no. Our notions of justice may or may not lead to punishment. Holding a > person responsible for their actions doesn't necessarily lead to blood lust > or revenge. But moral responsibility is necessarily precluded by denying free > will. Steve: I've explained that moral responsibility is a completely separate issue from free will, but you chose not to respond to those bits. dmb: There is no logical connection between compassion and determinism either. I find your reasoning is very far from airtight. In fact, you're already sunk and sitting at the bottom of the sea. Steve: If my reasoning is flawed, please point out where I went wrong. You should know that I don't hold your unsubstantiated opinions in any regard. dmb: > I don't see any reason why I should reply to your childish name-calling, so > most of your reply was deleted. If there was an actual point in there, then > feel free to repeat it, hopefully in grown-up language. Steve: What the hell are you talking about? I didn't even accuse you of not being a grown up as you just did to me? Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
