Whatever indeed.  Don't expect me to be consistent,  I change with every 
moment.  This is the nature of living in DQ.

I enjoy your posts as well.

Over and Out,

Mark

On Sep 10, 2011, at 11:59 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:

> 
> Mark,
> 
> My answer was the Hagen quote.  Don't like it?  Quibble with him.  
> Your posts are always interesting, and I enjoy reading them, but 
> I am not looking for you to tell me how it is.  For instance, 
> first you state that a teacher is a requirement, and then you state 
> a teacher has nothing to teach.  Whatever...  I did post to you Steve 
> Hagen's 'Epilogue:  Be a Light Unto Yourself'.   For me the  key is 
> mindfulness and meditation.   Sorry, but  I don't have answers for 
> you.   
> 
> Marsha 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 10, 2011, at 2:31 PM, 118 wrote:
> 
>> Gutten morgen Marsha,
>> I am not sure if you are avoiding my questions to be coy, or if you
>> have not yet thought of answers.  So I will wait on those.  In the
>> meantime, I will address your quote below in MoQ terms.
>> 
>> We create conceptual Reality with our intellects.  Such a thing is
>> termed comprehension.  This is what MoQ does, it creates a static view
>> of Reality so that we can share comprehension.   If I look it up on
>> Miriam-Webster, I come up with:  Comprehension --"the act of action of
>> grasping with the intellect".  Such "grasping" is the creation of
>> things with the intellect which happens within our brains and other
>> parts of our bodies.  We therefore comprehend things as long as we
>> intellectualize them, by simple definition.  If comprehension is
>> something other than that for you, I would like to hear how you define
>> comprehension.
>> 
>> To say that we cannot comprehend, means that we cannot
>> intellectualize.  Now, I can certainly do that, and do it all the time
>> with Reality; perhaps Steve Hagen cannot.  His "we" certainly does not
>> speak for me.  Perhaps he is speaking of his group of disciples.  Are
>> you one of those Marsha?
>> 
>> Every explanation of everything is provisional.  Science marches along
>> through the continual re-explanation of things.  Every time I eat a
>> fried egg, I have a new explanation for it.  To say we are done
>> explaining anything is a Flat Earth attitude.  It would seem that
>> Steve Hagen is putting himself on a Hegelian pedestal by claiming to
>> be able to fully explain something.  I would like to see him explain
>> the simplest thing, like a fly landing on his long nose.  I would tear
>> holes in it (the explanation, not the nose) quite easily.  All this
>> would take is some very simple Socratic questioning.
>> 
>> Reality is placed in a conceptual form every time we discuss it.  This
>> is the nature of the social level as it is utilizing the intellectual
>> level (and visa versa).  Perhaps Steve Hagen does not understand the
>> nature of static quality.  Reality does not fit into concepts because
>> it is created by concepts.  A Home does not fit into a house either,
>> so what?  This is pretentious rhetoric at best, and is not very
>> convincing to those of us outside of Steve Hagen's tight little circle
>> of followers.
>> 
>> Anyway, a few more questions for you to avoid discussing with me.  I
>> can only discuss things with you productively if you let me know what
>> you are thinking in terms of MoQ.
>> 
>> Namaste,
>> Your chat biatch,
>> Mark
>> 
>> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 10:39 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  "We can't comprehend Reality with our intellects.  We can't pull it into a 
>>> static view of some thing.  All our explanations are necessarily 
>>> provisional.  They're just rigid frames of what is actually motion and 
>>> fluidity.  In other words, if you think of how Reality is, you can be sure 
>>> that's how it isn't.  Reality simply cannot be put into conceptual form --- 
>>> not even through analogy, for there's no;thing like it.  Reality simply 
>>> doesn't fit into concepts at all.
>>> 
>>> (Hagen, Steve, ‘Buddhism: Plain and Simple’, p.71)
>>> 
>>> _
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 9, 2011, at 1:00 AM, 118 wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hallo M.
>>>> I will again ask, Marsha, if we are part of the illusion, what is it
>>>> an illusion of?  That is, what does it represent?  For example a
>>>> mirage of an oasis is an illusion of something we recognize.  Such an
>>>> illusion is misdirection, like mistaking a rope for a snake.  It is
>>>> what the Vedantins call Maya.  What is the illusion of a tiger and our
>>>> part in it representing in the REAL world?  Thinking about this may
>>>> help you along.
>>>> 
>>>> As the Zen teacher will tell you, he has nothing to teach.  And, he means 
>>>> it!
>>>> 
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Mark
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 8, 2011, at 12:13 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I love this story...  A student asked his venerated Zen teacher, "If all 
>>>>> is an illusion, should I run if a tiger chases me?"  "Yes!", said the 
>>>>> teacher, "because you are a part of the illusion."
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 8, 2011, at 2:33 AM, 118 wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Marsha,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have no idea what is REAL for you and what is PHONY, although I am
>>>>>> sure you do.  If I am driving through a neighborhood and two young
>>>>>> children suddenly appear crossing the street chasing a ball, that is
>>>>>> pretty REAL for me, and I slam on the breaks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>> Archives:
>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>> 
>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> Archives:
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org/md/archives.html

Reply via email to