Whatever indeed. Don't expect me to be consistent, I change with every moment. This is the nature of living in DQ.
I enjoy your posts as well. Over and Out, Mark On Sep 10, 2011, at 11:59 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mark, > > My answer was the Hagen quote. Don't like it? Quibble with him. > Your posts are always interesting, and I enjoy reading them, but > I am not looking for you to tell me how it is. For instance, > first you state that a teacher is a requirement, and then you state > a teacher has nothing to teach. Whatever... I did post to you Steve > Hagen's 'Epilogue: Be a Light Unto Yourself'. For me the key is > mindfulness and meditation. Sorry, but I don't have answers for > you. > > Marsha > > > > > On Sep 10, 2011, at 2:31 PM, 118 wrote: > >> Gutten morgen Marsha, >> I am not sure if you are avoiding my questions to be coy, or if you >> have not yet thought of answers. So I will wait on those. In the >> meantime, I will address your quote below in MoQ terms. >> >> We create conceptual Reality with our intellects. Such a thing is >> termed comprehension. This is what MoQ does, it creates a static view >> of Reality so that we can share comprehension. If I look it up on >> Miriam-Webster, I come up with: Comprehension --"the act of action of >> grasping with the intellect". Such "grasping" is the creation of >> things with the intellect which happens within our brains and other >> parts of our bodies. We therefore comprehend things as long as we >> intellectualize them, by simple definition. If comprehension is >> something other than that for you, I would like to hear how you define >> comprehension. >> >> To say that we cannot comprehend, means that we cannot >> intellectualize. Now, I can certainly do that, and do it all the time >> with Reality; perhaps Steve Hagen cannot. His "we" certainly does not >> speak for me. Perhaps he is speaking of his group of disciples. Are >> you one of those Marsha? >> >> Every explanation of everything is provisional. Science marches along >> through the continual re-explanation of things. Every time I eat a >> fried egg, I have a new explanation for it. To say we are done >> explaining anything is a Flat Earth attitude. It would seem that >> Steve Hagen is putting himself on a Hegelian pedestal by claiming to >> be able to fully explain something. I would like to see him explain >> the simplest thing, like a fly landing on his long nose. I would tear >> holes in it (the explanation, not the nose) quite easily. All this >> would take is some very simple Socratic questioning. >> >> Reality is placed in a conceptual form every time we discuss it. This >> is the nature of the social level as it is utilizing the intellectual >> level (and visa versa). Perhaps Steve Hagen does not understand the >> nature of static quality. Reality does not fit into concepts because >> it is created by concepts. A Home does not fit into a house either, >> so what? This is pretentious rhetoric at best, and is not very >> convincing to those of us outside of Steve Hagen's tight little circle >> of followers. >> >> Anyway, a few more questions for you to avoid discussing with me. I >> can only discuss things with you productively if you let me know what >> you are thinking in terms of MoQ. >> >> Namaste, >> Your chat biatch, >> Mark >> >> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 10:39 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "We can't comprehend Reality with our intellects. We can't pull it into a >>> static view of some thing. All our explanations are necessarily >>> provisional. They're just rigid frames of what is actually motion and >>> fluidity. In other words, if you think of how Reality is, you can be sure >>> that's how it isn't. Reality simply cannot be put into conceptual form --- >>> not even through analogy, for there's no;thing like it. Reality simply >>> doesn't fit into concepts at all. >>> >>> (Hagen, Steve, ‘Buddhism: Plain and Simple’, p.71) >>> >>> _ >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 9, 2011, at 1:00 AM, 118 wrote: >>> >>>> Hallo M. >>>> I will again ask, Marsha, if we are part of the illusion, what is it >>>> an illusion of? That is, what does it represent? For example a >>>> mirage of an oasis is an illusion of something we recognize. Such an >>>> illusion is misdirection, like mistaking a rope for a snake. It is >>>> what the Vedantins call Maya. What is the illusion of a tiger and our >>>> part in it representing in the REAL world? Thinking about this may >>>> help you along. >>>> >>>> As the Zen teacher will tell you, he has nothing to teach. And, he means >>>> it! >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> On Sep 8, 2011, at 12:13 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I love this story... A student asked his venerated Zen teacher, "If all >>>>> is an illusion, should I run if a tiger chases me?" "Yes!", said the >>>>> teacher, "because you are a part of the illusion." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 8, 2011, at 2:33 AM, 118 wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Marsha, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have no idea what is REAL for you and what is PHONY, although I am >>>>>> sure you do. If I am driving through a neighborhood and two young >>>>>> children suddenly appear crossing the street chasing a ball, that is >>>>>> pretty REAL for me, and I slam on the breaks. >>>>>> >>>>>> ... >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
