Hey Dan, Matt said: I think that we believe, as a high-valued intellectual pattern, that "there exists there exists a world apart from us" is true.
Dan said: How does reality exist apart from experience? Matt: Same way that this is true: "The way I read it, since the MOQ states reality begins with Dynamic Quality experience, it is the idea that reality exists that comes before the existence of reality." You said that in the earlier part of your post to explain how "reality existed before we personally did" within the frame of the MoQ. So if one is moved to say a variation of the statement "well, Don, you know reality does exist apart from our direct experience of it," the explanation of this statement is not a metaphysical variant of SOM, but rather that Don, for some reason, was suggesting that his dog's food dish didn't exist when he wasn't in the room with it (and then all the attendant worries about whether his dog was starving to death). How does reality exist apart from experience? Well, not in any metaphysical way, but only in the high-value assumption way we use to deal with retail items like dog dishes, baby cribs, and downtown supermarkets. Our dogs are getting fed when we leave the room, our babies are still resting albeit fitfully when we aren't there, and it's generally safe to plan your visit downtown around the assumption that the Safeway is still there. Dan said: in ZMM, Robert Pirsig seems to more fully embrace idealism while in LILA he makes it clear that a metaphysics needs to address the fundamentals of both materialism and idealism. Matt: I think that's not a bad way of describing an arc between the two books. Dan said: Most philosophy (to me) is so dull and dry that it puts me to sleep. I think that's why I enjoy Robert Pirsig's work... he takes philosophy and puts it into a story. He makes it interesting. In past moments I've made a real effort at reading James, Kant, Hegel, Royce, Sartre, Rand, etc., but to no avail. I cannot seem to get past the first few pages. So my debating any of them is rather pointless. I leave that to others... Matt: Thanks for not thinking that I was intentionally trying to say something obscurantist to you (for some attributed motivation that remains obscure to me). I just say things sometimes. Usually whatever comes to mind. Matt Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
