Hello Dan, I think it best to consider static patterns of value from two different points-of-view. The first would be the nature of all patterns: conditionally co-dependent, impermanent, ever-changing and conceptualized. The process of conceptualization would pertain to all patterns (ideas/language).
The second point-of-view would be categorization by evolutionary function into their four-level, hierarchical structure: inorganic, biological, social and intellectual. Then intellectual static patterns of value are a particular category of pattern that began to emerge with the ancient Greeks and functions in a particular manner: mathematics, philosophy, science, etc. Marsha On Mar 10, 2012, at 2:39 AM, Dan Glover <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello everyone > > On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 1:17 AM, David Harding <[email protected]> wrot >> Hi Craig, >> >> How do you know that? It is known through experience yes, but what you are >> communicating to me now are ideas, not experience. It is only, our unique >> human minds which can recognise these patterns. This is in line with >> Pirsig's quote that it is ideas which create what we know as inorganic >> patterns. >> >> "The MOQ says that Quality comes first, which produces ideas, which produce >> what we know as matter." - Lila's Child. > > Dan: > Yes, David... this seems right. Robert Pirsig is reiterating here what > he says in LILA concerning the foundations of his metaphysics: > > "Because Quality is morality. Make no mistake about it. They're > identical. And if Quality is the primary reality of the world then > that means morality is also the primary reality of the world. The > world is primarily a moral order. But it's a moral order that neither > Rigel nor the posing Victorians had ever, in their wildest dreams, > thought about or heard about. > > "The idea that the world is composed of nothing but moral value sounds > impossible at first. Only objects are supposed to be real. "Quality" > is supposed to be just a vague fringe word that tells what we think > about objects. The whole idea that Quality can create objects seems > very wrong. But we see subjects and objects as reality for the same > reason we see the world right-side up although the lenses of our eyes > actually present it to our brains upside down. We get so used to > certain patterns of interpretation we forget the patterns are there." > [LILA, chapter 8] > > Dan comments: > I think the key words here are 'patterns of interpretation' which > would seem to correspond to ideas... the idea that objects are real is > a high quality idea. But when we interpret reality in that way, we > forget that we are working with an idea... not with reality itself. We > are using lens like the ones in our eyes that we forget about. > > Iron filings do not 'recognize' magnets... iron filings exhibit a > preference. We (as human beings) create intellectual patterns (ideas) > to recognize those preferences. Predators do not recognize patterns of > prey... they exhibit preferences. We create intellectual patterns > (ideas) to recognize those preferences. Ideas produce patterns to the > value that makes up reality. > > Thank you, > > Dan > > http://www.danglover.com > > >> -David. >> >> >> On Saturday, 10 March 2012 at 4:55 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> >>> [David] >>>> The reason we call them this is because they are only ever recognised as >>>> patterns *because* >>>> of our intellect. They only exist *because* of our intellect. >>>> >>> >>> >>> I don't think this is Pirsig's view. Inorganic patterns (iron filings) >>> recognize other inorganic >>> patterns (magnets); biological patterns (predators) recognize the patterns >>> of their prey. >>> Craig >>> > > > > > -- > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
