Hi Dan, Much of my reasoning is based on a statement within the MoQ Textbook "‘Static quality’ refers to anything that can be conceptualised and is a synonym for the conditioned in Buddhist philosophy." This points to the fact that static patterns in every level has a relationship with the conceptualization (as thinking, thoughts, ideas) process.
Marsha On Mar 10, 2012, at 3:13 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello Dan, > > I think it best to consider static patterns of value from two different > points-of-view. The first would be the nature of all patterns: conditionally > co-dependent, impermanent, ever-changing and conceptualized. The process of > conceptualization would pertain to all patterns (ideas/language). > > The second point-of-view would be categorization by evolutionary function > into their four-level, hierarchical structure: inorganic, biological, social > and intellectual. Then intellectual static patterns of value are a > particular category of pattern that began to emerge with the ancient Greeks > and functions in a particular manner: mathematics, philosophy, science, etc. > > > > Marsha > > > > > > > > > On Mar 10, 2012, at 2:39 AM, Dan Glover <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello everyone >> >> On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 1:17 AM, David Harding <[email protected]> wrot >>> Hi Craig, >>> >>> How do you know that? It is known through experience yes, but what you are >>> communicating to me now are ideas, not experience. It is only, our unique >>> human minds which can recognise these patterns. This is in line with >>> Pirsig's quote that it is ideas which create what we know as inorganic >>> patterns. >>> >>> "The MOQ says that Quality comes first, which produces ideas, which produce >>> what we know as matter." - Lila's Child. >> >> Dan: >> Yes, David... this seems right. Robert Pirsig is reiterating here what >> he says in LILA concerning the foundations of his metaphysics: >> >> "Because Quality is morality. Make no mistake about it. They're >> identical. And if Quality is the primary reality of the world then >> that means morality is also the primary reality of the world. The >> world is primarily a moral order. But it's a moral order that neither >> Rigel nor the posing Victorians had ever, in their wildest dreams, >> thought about or heard about. >> >> "The idea that the world is composed of nothing but moral value sounds >> impossible at first. Only objects are supposed to be real. "Quality" >> is supposed to be just a vague fringe word that tells what we think >> about objects. The whole idea that Quality can create objects seems >> very wrong. But we see subjects and objects as reality for the same >> reason we see the world right-side up although the lenses of our eyes >> actually present it to our brains upside down. We get so used to >> certain patterns of interpretation we forget the patterns are there." >> [LILA, chapter 8] >> >> Dan comments: >> I think the key words here are 'patterns of interpretation' which >> would seem to correspond to ideas... the idea that objects are real is >> a high quality idea. But when we interpret reality in that way, we >> forget that we are working with an idea... not with reality itself. We >> are using lens like the ones in our eyes that we forget about. >> >> Iron filings do not 'recognize' magnets... iron filings exhibit a >> preference. We (as human beings) create intellectual patterns (ideas) >> to recognize those preferences. Predators do not recognize patterns of >> prey... they exhibit preferences. We create intellectual patterns >> (ideas) to recognize those preferences. Ideas produce patterns to the >> value that makes up reality. >> >> Thank you, >> >> Dan >> >> http://www.danglover.com >> >> >>> -David. >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, 10 March 2012 at 4:55 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>>> [David] >>>>> The reason we call them this is because they are only ever recognised as >>>>> patterns *because* >>>>> of our intellect. They only exist *because* of our intellect. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't think this is Pirsig's view. Inorganic patterns (iron filings) >>>> recognize other inorganic >>>> patterns (magnets); biological patterns (predators) recognize the patterns >>>> of their prey. >>>> Craig >>>> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
