David, With RMP describing "consciousness" as the "process of deļ¬ning Dynamic Quality" with definitions being "static patterns", and with static quality referring "to anything that can be conceptualised and is a synonym for the conditioned in Buddhist philosophy", I think a clear _relationship_, between ALL static patterns, within all levels, and the conceptualization process has been established. This is why I think looking at the similarities of all patterns, regardless of evolution, can be beneficial.
Marsha On Mar 19, 2012, at 4:15 AM, David Harding <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Craig, > >> [David] >>> These are ideas which you communicate to me...we are talking. And we can >>> only ever talk in ideas. >>> These are ideas which you communicate to me. >> >> This seems to be an example of the fallacy of mistaking the menu for the >> food. >> 1) Beef, chicken & fish are on the menu >> 2) Only words are on the menu >> 3) :. Beef, chicken & fish are words > > Yes, words representing things is a *good* *idea*. > >> or >> >> 1) Brushing your teeth is a good idea >> 2) An idea is an intellectual pattern >> 3) :. Brushing your teeth is a (good) intellectual pattern >> >> "The MOQ says that Quality comes first, which produces ideas, which produce >> what we know as matter." >> [Pirsig, Lila's Child] >> "Playti have been laying eggs and suckling their young for million of years >> before there were >> zoologists" [Pirsig, Lila's Child] >> >> How do we reconcile these two statements? > > I don't see a contradiction. > >> One way would be to say that in the first quote, Pirsig is talking about >> matter as "theoretical entities", >> such as atomic nuclei surrounded by orbiting electrons. In the second >> quote, he is talking about platypi >> as biological patterns, apart from any classification that zoologists assign >> them. > > In the first quote - Pirsig is talking about how the mind / matter debate > isn't an either / or debate. Pirsig solves the mind / matter debate by > claiming that there is something more fundamental than either matter or ideas > - it's quality. Pirsig reminds us, in the first quote, that while ideas > produce what we know as matter, that isn't the end of the story. He says it > is a *good* idea that matter comes first. And because quality is fundamental > and not ideas; then we should behave and live as if matter is first when it > is *good* to do so. Such an instance of a *good* time to do so is when > zoologists are studying Platipi. This is what Pirsig is talking about in his > second statement.. > > -David. > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
