Andre, The “no-self” is a flow of ever-changing, conditionally co-dependent, impermanent and conceptualized static patterns of inorganic, biological, social and intellectual value in the infinite field of Dynamic Quality.
Marsha p.s. Yes, Andre, I changed the label. Do you like the new convention? On Mar 23, 2012, at 4:48 PM, Andre wrote: > dmb to Marsha: > She is so lacking in self-awareness that she doesn't see her own defensive > anger as a rather transparent confession, but that's exactly what it is. > > Andre: > Excellent post dmb. I just thought I'd pick some issues out of it to > elaborate on it by providing, perhaps a slightly different perspective but, > in my view totally commensurate with the MOQ. > > Lila is not, strictly speaking, 'lacking in self-awareness' but rather her > awareness of herself is defined in biological terms. What does this mean? The > biological level has 'emerged' from the inorganic level. At this level there > is, as yet, no idea of a social let alone intellectual level. One's > awareness, one's consciousness therefore is restricted to the biological > level. Everything and everybody is seen in biological terms with biological > connotations/intentions/wishes etc. > > To put it in intellectual terms: the ego is still at the level of 'body-ego', > more or less differentiated from the environment. Lila's anger, of course, > and her own 'rationalizations'(and justifications) about her own 'state' are > indications of her (pathological) attempt to 'transcend' to the social > level(at least). Her paranoia is the protection/indication and result of the > failure of this attempt. > > Then follows the quote after which you say: > > "Marsha read this and finds great wisdom in Lila's words, as if her denial of > self were an indication of enlightenment." > > Which, as you rightly point out it is not. Rather it is regression. Lila > cannot handle social membership, and because the intellectual is never in > view Lila doesn't know it and Marsha thinks she has gone beyond it but the > 'wisdom' found is only body-centric, naturistic/narcissistic. It is > pre-verbal, pre-personal, pre-mental. Lila is "nobody", she is "not at home". > She is a (n)ever-changing set of static biological patterns of quality. > Socially low, intellectual-nowhere...and in desperate need of stability. > > Of course Phaedrus wants to kill her. "Not the biological Lila, but the > static patterns that were really going to kill her if she didn't let go". I > think what Phaedrus means is that he wants to kill her ( sole) identification > of herself with the biological level. To 'escape' into Dynamic Quality i.e. > die to this level, die to the sole identification of the self with biology > and transcend into the social level (at least...one cannot skip levels as > Aurobindo and many others point out), assuming thereby an expanded (self) > consciousness. It does mean a 'birth' in the new and a death of (but > including) the former. > > I do hope this makes a little bit of sense. It sure has help me to understand > Marsha's defenses a bit better....not that that is an excuse! > > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
