Marsha, If you like Hagen, then you should write accordingly. If you say that you find patterns, then you place yourself as the cork. You create patterns, you don't "find" them. Patterns do not exist outside of our creation of them, they are SQ.
By Hagen's logic, when he claims that we are that stream and does away with the cork, he is defining the Self as that stream. The self is still there, just analogized as a stream. In my opinion, Hagen does not present this very well, or is confused. Every time you say "I", you reveal that you are still creating a subject-object distinction. This would suggest that you have not quite tuned in to what you say you believe. Not to worry, it takes practice, and cannot be arrived at by reading a book about it. Try changing the manner in which you write about it. Mark On Sep 7, 2012, at 4:15 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Craig, > > When I am mindful, aware, watching, Steve Hagen's description of a stream > seems quite appropriate, though my description would be a flow of patterns. > When I am not mindful, aware, watching, I don't know what is happening, so I > don' know what I don't know. I have not found any independent self providing > magical solutions. I've found only a stream of inorganic, biological, social > and intellectual patterns. > > > Marsha > > > On Sep 7, 2012, at 4:37 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> [Hagen] >>> we insert the notion of “I” we’re posited some little, solid entity that >>> floats along, not as stream, but like a cork in a stream. >>> We see ourselves as solid corks, not as the actual stream we are. >> >> If the stream is a stream of consciousness, this isn't right. >> There is the sub-/un-conscious, too. Sometimes we go to sleep with a >> problem on our mind & wake up with a solution. >> Where did the solution come from? It was no part of the stream, yet it came >> from us. So we cannot be identical to the stream. >> Craig >> >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
