On 8/2/12 4:37 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> [Dave] >> Why would one arbitrarily limit [the social level] to humans with no real >> reason? > [Craig] > The spov levels are neither "arbitrary" nor without "real reason"? > What you are asking for is something that distinguishes the human social 3rd > level from other animals' 2nd level. [Dave] No I'm not. I'm saying that "social" is now and was in 1991 when Lila was published commonly defined as: > "The term SOCIAL refers to a characteristic of living organisms as applied > to populations of humans and other animals. It always refers to the > interaction of organisms with other organisms and to their collective > co-existence, irrespective of whether they are aware of it or not, and > irrespective of whether the interaction is voluntary or involuntary." > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social [Dave] Or something very very close to it. Why Pirsig limited it to humans I don't know. But the best intellectuals in societies around the world have been working on this very issue since before Darwin with no definitive answer and along comes non-scientist Pirsig and says, "I'll help you, the split is right here. Why? Because everyone knows what Quality is." > IMHO this distinction lies in the self-conscious rule-following and > institutions of humans. > However, note that there is nothing in principle that prevents other animals > from > obtaining the 3rd level. It just hadn't happened in Pirsig's time. > And conversely there is the human social 2nd level. [Dave] This is all fine and good but it not the MoQ. And if it was it would violate his "discreteness" rule by splitting social qualities between two levels. But the broader point I'm trying to make is by using common words in a fast and loose fashion it makes it virtually impossible for anyone other than Pirsig to say what is or is not on any particular level. And what good is that? This is a system that any five year old is able to understand, but nobody over five. Dave Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
