Hi Ant,
I'm quite new to tea, and find there are many types, flavors and timings involved. I can even make a drama out of choosing a teapot. At the moment my favorite tea is called Golden Monkey and is a black tea steeped in ancient lore and imperial exclusivity which originated with the Song Dynasty. It's suppose to have a smooth flavor, rich with complex cocoa undertones. But I find the English Breakfast tea quite satisfying too. I like the quote you offered. I fully confess to my participation in the illusion. Marsha On Feb 3, 2013, at 9:08 AM, Ant McWatt <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Marsha, > > > > That McWatt guy knew what was he was talking about, didn't he?! > > > > A little more seriously, I'm not a great fan of throwing quotes around (all > "old tea" which is relatively static to hearing people's own new, > Dynamic thoughts) but I'll add this pragmatic thought about the > "self" from Di Santo & Steele: > > > > "Real in the sense of being [a] useful conceptualisation... but illusory > in the sense of having independent or absolute existence from anything > else. As the eighth century philosopher Shankara answered a student > who asked him if you should run if being chased by a mad elephant: ‘Yes, > because you’re part of the same illusion!’" (Di Santo & Steele, > 1990, p.61) > > > > It's the last line which is critical here! > > > > Still, "all those years ago", it was great seeing poor old Platt > Holden grasp the old SOM notion of the self like Jimi Hendrix's infamous > miner: > > > > "I love you baby like a miner love gold > > Come on sugar, let the good times roll" > > > > Now that's a quote from "Electric Ladyland" (what a great album for > psychedelics - you can quote me on that too!) while, of course, (for the > dubious "benefit" of new members) Platt's Ayn Rand-like rantings on > the self can be found throughout the archives at MOQ Discuss. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Ant > > P.s. Marsha, I mentioned your query about the "Greatest Books of East Asian > World" at the Facebook page for robertpirsig.org. > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > Marsha quoted Bob & Ant: > >> "An example of sammuti-sacca [i.e. conventional truth corresponding to >> static quality] is the concept of self. Pirsig follows the Buddha’s >> teachings about the ‘self’ which doesn’t recognise that it has any real >> existence and that only ‘nothingness’ (i.e. Dynamic Quality) is thought to >> be real. According to Rahula, the Buddha taught that a clinging to the self >> as real is the primary cause of dukkha (which is usually translated as >> ‘suffering’). Having said this, Rahula (1959, p.55) makes it very clear that >> it’s not incorrect to ‘use such expressions in our daily life as ‘I’, ‘you’, >> ‘being’, ‘individual’, etc’ as long as it is remembered that the self (like >> anything else conceptualised) is just a useful convention." >> (McWatt, MoQ Textbook, Section 5.6) >> >> >> "This fictitious 'man' has many synonyms; 'mankind,' 'people,' 'the public,' >> and even such pronouns as 'I,' 'he,' and 'they.' Our language is so >> organized around them and they are so convenient to use it is impossible to >> get rid of them. There is really no need to. Like 'substance' they can be >> used as long as it is remembered that they're terms for collections of >> patterns and not some independent primary reality of their own." >> (LILA, Chapter 12) >> >> >> "This Cartesian 'Me,' this autonomous little homunculus who sits behind our >> eyeballs looking out through them in order to pass judgment on the affairs >> of the world, is just completely ridiculous. This self-appointed little >> editor of reality is just an impossible fiction that collapses the moment >> one examines it. This Cartesian 'Me' is a software reality, not a hardware >> reality. This body on the left and this body on the right are running >> variations of the same program, the same 'Me,' which doesn't belong to >> either of them. The 'Me's' are simply a program format. >> >> "Talk about aliens from another planet. This program based on 'Me's' and >> 'We's' is the alien. 'We' has only been here for a few thousand years or so. >> But these bodies that 'We' has taken over were around for ten times that >> long before 'We' came along. And the cells - my God, the cells have been >> around for thousands of times that long." >> (LILA, Chapter 15) >> >> >> “The MOQ, as I understand it, denies any existence of a “self” that is >> independent of inorganic, biological, social or intellectual patterns. There >> is no “self” that contains these patterns. These patterns contain the self. >> This denial agrees with both religious mysticism and scientific knowledge. >> In Zen, there is reference to “big self” and “small self.” Small self is the >> patterns. Big self is Dynamic Quality." >> (RMP, Lila’s Child, Annotation 29) >> >> >> "It's important to remember that both science and Eastern religions regard >> "the individual" as an empty concept. It is literally a figure of speech. If >> you start assigning concrete reality to it, you will find yourself in a >> philosophic quandary". >> (RMP, Lila’s Child, Annotattion 77) >> >> >> "The MOQ, like the Buddhists and the Determinists (odd bedfellows) says this >> “autonomous individual” is an illusion." >> (RMP, Copleston Annotations found at robertpirsig.org) > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
