Ant, Ones experience of the sun is one that is ever-changing as the sun moves position through the sky and as ones visual perspective and context changes. Even moving ones head changes the experience. And I thought the MoQ was to change the everyday understanding from one of self and objects to one where the world is nothing but value. I didn't think it was to keep the everyday mundane understanding in a static state of ignorance. - I would certainly recommend your PhD thesis and Textbook as a valuable resource.
Marsha On Feb 4, 2013, at 6:05 PM, Ant McWatt <[email protected]> wrote: > > Marsha wrote to X-man (Ron) and Dave Buchanan, Feb 5th 2013: > > Here's my definition of the self: the “self” is a flow of > ever-changing, conditionally co-dependent and impermanent static > patterns value in the infinite field of Dynamic Quality. > > > Dave Buchanan responded: > > As I've pointed out many times, your definition of the self is > contradictory. Obviously, if the self "flows" and is "ever-changing" > then it can not also be a "static" pattern. Those are contradictory > terms and so your definition is nonsense. Can't you think of a way to > say it that doesn't contradict standard definitions or violate basic > logic > > Words like "flowing" and "ever-changing" can rightly > be used to describe the "Dynamic", but not the "static" or the > "patterned". Since "static" and "Dynamic" are such central terms in the > MOQ, your contradictory definition is especially egregious. > > egregious |iˈgrējəs|adjective outstandingly bad; shocking > > > Ant McWatt comments: > > This reminds of the more esoteric material (Joseph Margolis? - I can't > remember off the top of my head) that Scott Roberts introduced seven-eight > years ago. You can just go on and on in these logical circles; spinning > words like a logical positivist on speed... Anyway, as Dave is saying, LILA > is basically written from the static perspective of the "everyday, mundane > world" where, for pragmatic reasons, it's just easier to presume the > components of the self are static, or better still (as Marsha implied), so we > don't confuse Pirsig's static-Dynamic terminology with the concepts of > Newtonian physics, "stable". (The latter modification is noted by Pirsig as > an improvement somewhere in the correspondence). > > Of course, in my academic correspondence with Pirsig which Marsha enjoys > quoting extensively from the MOQ Textbook and PhD (btw, still both available > as PDF files from the groovy looking shop at robertpirsig.org!!!), the > Dynamic perspective of the "Buddha's World" was introduced, and, of course, > the essential nature of the (dependent) static patterns are seen as > ever-changing and impermanent from that perspective. But some of these > changes - such as our sun slowly burning itself out - are outside many human > lifetimes. Though I think it's important to realise that perspective is > there (especially in regards to avoiding dukkha/personal imbalance), it can > confuse things (certainly when discussing the MOQ) if you're not making it > clear that it is this perspective you're taking. > > And, then, you can apply the logic of the Tetralemma and be really strict > about what you can and can not assert about reality (and its various > components) but how useful is that type of academic exercise for maintaining > your bike or getting on with your wife or encouraging world peace, love and > understanding? Not much really. It's academic, fat man in the refrigator > time. A little bit degenerate and essentially self-serving. > (Though having said that, I'm still looking forward to receiving Paul > Turner's new, updated thoughts about the Tetralemma - for publication at > robertpirsig.org - in the next couple of weeks or so. Who's for MOQ > cheeseburger and freedom fries?!) > > Best wishes, > > Ant > > > > > . > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
