Adrie to Jan And Belgium is the world capitol of the beer .
The list.hmmm i can only agree on the westvleten, all the rest,Pfffff, meaningless. imho, my list Duvel!! westvleteren westmalle kriek lambik export keep in mind, westvleteren and westmalle are not in the shops here, the only way to purchase them, is to go to the abdy personally and buy 1 crate 24 bottles,per customer,nothing more. Duvel triple hop is a one time only prestige project from moortgat to fetch hop from Japan by airfraight and blend it in the duvel. the project is limited to one 6 packs per customer only, and will last for only more then 2 months.they will put a lot of money on each botttle they sell. next week it is history. best beer i'v ever tasted give me your adress, i'll hold a six pack aside for you, free. 2013/4/27 <[email protected]> > [email protected]> > From: Jan Anders Andersson <[email protected]> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary=Apple-Mail-62F11998-114B-427B-BE23-7175CA179B40 > X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) > In-Reply-To: < > cafs_yj6qofkzrx8yplyf8zw6fmrb8dnsxakg9cpdklqcdwu...@mail.gmail.com> > Message-Id: <[email protected]> > Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 22:52:20 +0200 > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) > > > --Apple-Mail-62F11998-114B-427B-BE23-7175CA179B40 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=utf-8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Adrie > > I fully agree in that about Dmb's statement. Anyone in for an intellectual > T= > ango? > > But Duvel triple? I know it, it's a fine drink, but I can't find it on the > l= > ist: http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/top-50/ > > Cheers (Rosemount, Shiraz, 1994) > > Jan-Anders > > > 27 apr 2013 kl. 22:13 skrev ADRIE KINTZIGER <[email protected]>: > > > David Buchanan > > " intellectual values are values in and of themselves. You don't arrive > at= > > > them by some other species of value" > >=20 > >=20 > > Adrie > > this statement will go to my son by e-mail David.This is what Pirsig is > > meaning to say,when he states " it arrived at me in a dynamical way" > >=20 > > One day long time ago, a patent office clerck was kinda bored with > reality= > > > as whe know it, and took a white sheet approach, an empty sheet approach > o= > n > > gravity,relativity,time,speed, etc, and wrote out the complete special > > relativity theory, and general relativity. > > none of the facts were derived from value's, none of the value's were > > derived from facts.At first , there was nothing, after this ,it was all > > there. > > It seems to be so that it arrived at him in a dynamical way. > > Until today, what he wrote down,then, is neatly in congruence with > quantum= > > > physiks.Every day further evidence is found that reality can be derived > > from intellect,before reality itself became a factual entity. > >=20 > > duvel tripel hop 9.5 =C2=B0, best beer in the world > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > 2013/4/27 david buchanan <[email protected]> > >=20 > >>=20 > >> Dan said: > >> ...Remember, ideas are patterns of value. Morals and quality are > >> synonymous in the MOQ. I doubt anyone here only keeps an eye on logical > >> consistency. But if a contributor consistently contradicts themselves it > >> points to a lack of quality. > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> David H replied: > >> I agree here. But why is there a lack of quality? Why does a > contributor,= > > >> in your eyes, consistently contradict themselves? That's what I'm > pointin= > g > >> towards. Everyone has different values. So at some time or another - no > >> matter who you discuss anything with you will at some stage come upon a > >> disagreement. They value something which you don't which causes them to > >> deem their words with coherence, and you the opposite. ...If your values > >> are better than mine - why is that? Or are there other values which are > >> better? Why do you have the values which you do? Why do you deem them of > >> value? We live in a society today where people are almost frightened of > >> openly discussing their values and morals for fear of offending or > >> appearing insensitive. But the values/morals of the participants in a > >> discussion are not irrelevant and to be actively avoided (as is > >> traditionally thought) - but are the *most* important part of a > >> philosophical discussion. > >>=20 > >> dmb says: > >> I can see that you're trying to hook up values and intellect, even > saying= > > >> that values are the MOST important part of a philosophical discussion. > An= > d > >> yet there is still a SOMish separation implied in what you're saying. > Thi= > s > >> is contained in the questions you pose; everybody has different values, > y= > ou > >> say, which causes us to disagree about what is and is not coherent. If > yo= > ur > >> values are better than mine, why is that? This implies that the > meaning= > > >> of logical consistency differs from person to person, that the > distinctio= > n > >> between coherence and incoherence is just a matter of one's personal > >> feelings and attitudes. It just doesn't work like that, David. It's not > a= > s > >> if each individual has their own private mythos or that each person is a > >> culture of one, an isolated individual with no real way to communicate > wi= > th > >> another soul, excepts as two ships passing the night. That kind of > >> solipsistic alienation is what you get with SOM, wherein each individual > >> has her own way of representing > >> reality. But in the MOQ, we are composed of the static patterns of our > >> time and culture and language. Marsha is not from some other place or > tim= > e. > >> She speaks English (sort of) and lives in the 21st century West, just > lik= > e > >> everybody else here. > >>=20 > >> But the thing is, as people keep saying to you repeatedly, intellectual > >> values are values in and of themselves. You don't arrive at them by way > o= > f > >> some other species of value. I mean, health is a biological good, fame > an= > d > >> fortune are social level values, while truth is what's good and right > >> intellectually. Again, in the MOQ intellectual quality is the highest > for= > m > >> of value, the most moral. This is protected in the MOQ's moral codes and > >> it's supposed to be protected in the Bill of Rights. This is supposed > to b= > e > >> an evolutionary advance over social level morality - what usually > counts a= > s > >> morality in the church, as well as the over the worship of fame and > >> fortune. Intellectual level morals are even opposed to these lower > level i= > n > >> very important ways. > >>=20 > >> Long story short, intellect is not the enemy. SOM and amoral objectivity > >> is the enemy. And those are two very different things. > >>=20 > >> And then there is the distinction between concepts and reality, the > >> difference between a knowable, definable metaphysical system and the > >> reality (the undefinable Quality) that it talks about. > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --=20 > > parser > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > --Apple-Mail-62F11998-114B-427B-BE23-7175CA179B40 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset=utf-8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; > charset=3D= > utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: > aut= > o; ">Adrie</div><div style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; > "><br></div><d= > iv style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">I fully agree in that about > Dm= > b's statement. Anyone in for an intellectual Tango?</div><div > style=3D"-webk= > it-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div > style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjus= > t: auto; ">But Duvel triple? I know it, it's a fine drink, but I can't > find i= > t on the list: <span style=3D"font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; > white= > -space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); > -we= > bkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); > -webkit-composit= > ion-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: > non= > e; "><a href=3D"http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/top-50/";> > http://www.ratebeer.co= > m/beer/top-50/</a></span></div><div style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: > auto;= > "><span style=3D"font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; > -= > webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); > -webkit-composition-= > fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); > -webkit-composition-frame-color: r= > gba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; > "><br></span></= > div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: > now= > rap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); > -webkit-compos= > ition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); > -webkit-composition-frame-c= > olor: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);">Cheers (Rosemount, Shiraz, > 1994)</span>= > </div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: > n= > owrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); > -webkit-comp= > osition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); > -webkit-composition-frame= > -color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);"><br></span></div><div><span > style=3D"= > font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; > -webkit-tap-highlig= > ht-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: > rgba(1= > 75, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, > 180,= > 0.230469);">Jan-Anders</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 15px; > lin= > e-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, > 2= > 6, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, > 0.2304= > 69); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, > 0.230469);"><br></s= > pan></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; > white-spac= > e: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); > -webkit-= > composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); > -webkit-composition-f= > rame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);"><br></span></div><div > style=3D"-w= > ebkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">27 apr 2013 kl. 22:13 skrev ADRIE > KINTZIGER &= > lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected] > </a>>:<br><b= > r></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; > "= > ><div><span>David Buchanan</span><br><span>" intellectual values are > values i= > n and of themselves. You don't arrive at</span><br><span>them by some > other s= > pecies of > value"</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Adrie</sp= > an><br><span>this statement will go to my son by e-mail David.This is what > P= > irsig is</span><br><span>meaning to say,when he states " it arrived at me > in= > a dynamical way"</span><br><span></span><br><span>One day long time ago, > a p= > atent office clerck was kinda bored with reality</span><br><span>as whe > know= > it, and took a white sheet approach, an empty sheet approach > on</span><br><= > span>gravity,relativity,time,speed, etc, and wrote out the complete > special<= > /span><br><span>relativity theory, and general > relativity.</span><br><span>n= > one of the facts were derived from value's, none of the value's > were</span><= > br><span>derived from facts.At first , there was nothing, after this ,it > was= > all</span><br><span>there.</span><br><span>It seems to be so that it > arrive= > d at him in a dynamical way.</span><br><span>Until today, what he wrote > down= > ,then, is neatly in congruence with quantum</span><br><span>physiks.Every > da= > y further evidence is found that reality can be > derived</span><br><span>from= > intellect,before reality itself became a factual > entity.</span><br><span></= > span><br><span>duvel tripel hop 9.5 =C2=B0, best beer in the > world</span><br= > > ><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span><= > /span><br><span>2013/4/27 david buchanan <<a href=3D"mailto: > dmbuchanan@ho= > tmail.com">[email protected] > </a>></span><br><span></span><br><blockq= > uote type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><= > span>Dan said:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span>...Rem= > ember, ideas are patterns of value. Morals and quality > are</span><br></block= > quote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>synonymous in the MOQ. I doubt > anyone h= > ere only keeps an eye on logical</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"= > cite"><span>consistency. But if a contributor consistently contradicts > thems= > elves it</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>points to > a l= > ack of quality.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span></spa= > n><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><= > blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>David H > replied:</span><br></blockquote><bloc= > kquote type=3D"cite"><span>I agree here. But why is there a lack of > quality?= > Why does a contributor,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><s= > pan>in your eyes, consistently contradict themselves? That's what I'm > pointi= > ng</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>towards. > Eve= > ryone has different values. So at some time or another - > no</span><br></bloc= > kquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>matter who you discuss anything > with y= > ou will at some stage come upon a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D= > "cite"><span>disagreement. They value something which you don't > which c= > auses them to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>deem > th= > eir words with coherence, and you the opposite. ...If your > values</span><br>= > </blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>are better than mine - why is > t= > hat? Or are there other values which > are</span><br></blockquote><blockquote t= > ype=3D"cite"><span>better? Why do you have the values which you do? Why do > y= > ou deem them of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span>value= > ? We live in a society today where people are almost frightened > of</sp= > an><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>openly discussing > their v= > alues and morals for fear of offending > or</span><br></blockquote><blockquote= > type=3D"cite"><span>appearing insensitive. But the values/morals of > t= > he participants in a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span>= > discussion are not irrelevant and to be actively avoided (as > is</span><br></= > blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>traditionally thought) - but > are t= > he *most* important part of a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cit= > e"><span>philosophical discussion.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D= > "cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>dmb > say= > s:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>I can see that > you= > 're trying to hook up values and intellect, even > saying</span><br></blockquo= > te><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>that values are the MOST important part > o= > f a philosophical discussion. And</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D= > "cite"><span>yet there is still a SOMish separation implied in what you're > s= > aying. This</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>is > contai= > ned in the questions you pose; everybody has different values, > you</span><br= > ></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>say, which causes us to > disagr= > ee about what is and is not coherent. If > your</span><br></blockquote><blockq= > uote type=3D"cite"><span>values are better than mine, why is that? > &nb= > sp;This implies that the meaning</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"= > cite"><span>of logical consistency differs from person to person, that the > d= > istinction</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>between > co= > herence and incoherence is just a matter of one's > personal</span><br></block= > quote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>feelings and attitudes. It just > doesn'= > t work like that, David. It's not as</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type= > =3D"cite"><span>if each individual has their own private mythos or that > each= > person is a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span>culture o= > f one, an isolated individual with no real way to communicate > with</span><br= > ></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>another soul, excepts as two > s= > hips passing the night. That kind of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type= > =3D"cite"><span>solipsistic alienation is what you get with SOM, wherein > eac= > h individual</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>has > her o= > wn way of representing</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><spa= > n> reality. But in the MOQ, we are composed of the static patterns of > our</s= > pan><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>time and culture and > la= > nguage. Marsha is not from some other place or > time.</span><br></blockquote>= > <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>She speaks English (sort of) and lives in > th= > e 21st century West, just like</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"ci= > te"><span>everybody else here.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"ci= > te"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>But the > th= > ing is, as people keep saying to you repeatedly, > intellectual</span><br></bl= > ockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>values are values in and of > themsel= > ves. You don't arrive at them by way of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > t= > ype=3D"cite"><span>some other species of value. I mean, health is a > biologic= > al good, fame and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span>for= > tune are social level values, while truth is what's good and > right</span><br= > ></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>intellectually. Again, in > the M= > OQ intellectual quality is the highest > form</span><br></blockquote><blockquo= > te type=3D"cite"><span>of value, the most moral. This is protected in the > MO= > Q's moral codes and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span>i= > t's supposed to be protected in the Bill of Rights. This is supposed to > be</= > span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>an evolutionary > advanc= > e over social level morality - what usually counts > as</span><br></blockquote= > ><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>morality in the church, as well as the > over= > the worship of fame and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><s= > pan>fortune. Intellectual level morals are even opposed to these lower > level= > in</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>very important > wa= > ys.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></bloc= > kquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>Long story short, intellect is not > th= > e enemy. SOM and amoral objectivity</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D= > "cite"><span>is the enemy. And those are two very different > things.</span><b= > r></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><bloc= > kquote type=3D"cite"><span>And then there is the distinction between > concept= > s and reality, the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span>di= > fference between a knowable, definable metaphysical system and > the</span><br= > ></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>reality (the undefinable > Quali= > ty) that it talks about.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><s= > pan></span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blo= > ckquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote t= > ype=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span><= > /span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquo= > te><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D= > "cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span></span>= > <br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>Moq_Discuss mailing > list</s= > pan><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>Listinfo, > Unsubscribing= > etc.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span><a > href=3D"http= > ://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org"> > http://lists.moqt= > alk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > </a></span><br></blockquote><blo= > ckquote type=3D"cite"><span>Archives:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote > typ= > e=3D"cite"><span><a href=3D" > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-m= > oqtalk.org/">http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > </a>= > </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span><a href=3D" > http://mo= > q.org/md/archives.html">http://moq.org/md/archives.html > </a></span><br></bloc= > kquote><blockquote > type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><span></span>= > <br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>-- > </span><br><span>parser</span= > ><br><span>Moq_Discuss mailing list</span><br><span>Listinfo, > Unsubscribing e= > tc.</span><br><span><a href=3D" > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_dis= > cuss-moqtalk.org"> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.= > org</a></span><br><span>Archives:</span><br><span><a href=3D" > http://lists.mo= > qtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/"> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/piper= > mail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/</a></span><br><span><a href=3D" > http://moq.org/= > md/archives.html">http://moq.org/md/archives.html > </a></span><br></div></bloc= > kquote></body></html>= > > --Apple-Mail-62F11998-114B-427B-BE23-7175CA179B40-- > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- parser Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
