That particular difference and what you see clearly is what you value. I don't see the difference as you see it. I occasionally use provisional. I occasionally use relative. I prefer hypothetical for the reasons I offered.
On May 21, 2013, at 10:20 PM, David Harding <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't "believe" anything Marsha. Like Steve Hagen, I *know* what's good and > what isn't good - and you do too. Along these lines I'm interested in and > value what you write (same goes for dmb too believe it or not). I wouldn't > talk to you otherwise. Simply trying to understand what you write is an act > of caring. I want to understand what you write. But to me there is a clear > difference between 'hypothetical' and 'provisional'. So do you see the > difference in those two terms? How 'provisional' is *using* the quality of > something, while a 'hypothetical' is *before* the quality of something is > determined? Do you see that difference? > > On 22/05/2013, at 11:39 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Hi David, >> >> Yes, as I have previously explained, I prefer to think of all _static >> patterns of value_ as hypothetical (supposed but not necessarily real or >> true.) Once one accepts the MoQ's fundamental principal that the world is >> nothing but Value, then (imho) 'expanded rationality' occurs when an >> individual transforms the natural tendency to reify self and world into the >> natural tendency to hold all static patterns of value to be hypothetical >> (supposed but not necessarily real or true.) There is less of a tendency >> toward intellectual arrogance. Considering static (patterned) value as >> hypothetical acknowledges the incompleteness of what we know and promotes >> additional inquiry with the potential for new discoveries and possibilities. >> It encourages an attitude of fearless gumption and intellectual curiosity. >> It moves one away from thinking of entities as existing inherently. So >> yes, I prefer to think of _static patterns of value_ as hypothetical >> (supposed but not necessarily real or true.) >> >> You might prefer 'provisional', like you might prefer to call me an >> "anti-intellectual" or a "bad mystic". You believe what you believe. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> On May 21, 2013, at 7:05 PM, David Harding <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> What about 'provisionally' or 'provisionals'? Would you be happy with that >>> word instead? >>> >>> "One seeks instead the highest quality intellectual explanation of things >>> with the knowledge that if the past is any guide to the future this >>> explanation must be taken provisionally; as useful until something better >>> comes along." - Lila >>> >>> Because I ran a search on Lila for the word 'hypothetical' and it isn't >>> mentioned once... I think there's a good reason why Pirsig didn't use the >>> word hypothetically in his sentence above. That reason, I think, is that >>> there's an important difference between the two words… >>> >>> Here's what the dictionary says: >>> >>> Provisional - "subject to further confirmation; for the time being: the >>> film, provisionally entitled Skin, is due to be released next year." >>> >>> Hypothetical - "supposed but not necessarily real or true. Logic - >>> denoting or containing a proposition of the logical form if p then q ." >>> >>> In the first instance - provisional is about 'USING something until >>> something else - better - may come along'. >>> >>> Hypothetical is about PROPOSING or SUPPOSING something REGARDLESS of >>> whether we use it or how good it is. >>> >>> In other words 'Hypothetical' is REGARDLESS of the value of something and >>> whether we use it or not. It is about PROPOSING something - not >>> provisionally USING something like the word provisional suggests. So one of >>> these words acknowledges the quality of something while the other is before >>> we judge the quality of something. >>> >>> Can you see that difference between the two words at least? >>> >>> >>> On 22/05/2013, at 12:07 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Since the MoQ has conceptualizations as useful fictions, I think it is in >>>> agreement with RMP. I certainly do not think he'd object. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 21, 2013, at 7:31 AM, David Harding <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> You can't answer a question? It's not abstract - it's just a question >>>>> about whether you think your view of static patterns of value as >>>>> 'hypothetical' is in line with what Pirsig has written about them? It's >>>>> about what you think not abstract. >>>>> >>>>> On 21/05/2013, at 9:16 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> RMP has said many things about static patterns of value, I don't see how >>>>>> I can offer a specific answer to such a general, abstract question, so I >>>>>> won't. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 21, 2013, at 6:29 AM, David Harding <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Marsha, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do you consider this in line with what Pirsig has said about static >>>>>>> patterns of value? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 21/05/2013, at 7:17 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> dmb, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:38 AM, david buchanan <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> dmb quotes RMP: >>>>>>>>> "...the MOQ does not insist on a single exclusive truth. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Okay, you, dmb, consider static patterns of value to represent truths. >>>>>>>> I consider static patterns of value to represent hypotheticals. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Marsha >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
