Adrie
"Either way, we can only be disappointed.",........to see you leaving the grid Anthony,in this manner,not a desirable one. I was so dissapointed when Paul Turner left, still today so,....i'll have to agree with him that this list is becoming a weird environment ---not only for newcomers,but for all of us.It is becoming an intellectual desert where we should wish a rainforest to appear. come to think of it, should Sokrates still be alive today,would he subscribe to the list, or stay around the Ilica? Honestly guys...... --- 2013/8/3 Ant McWatt <[email protected]> > David Harding stated August 2nd 2013: > > Ant, > > What do you see as the point of this discussion group? Is it to have > intellectual discussion or something else? If so, what is it? > > Full disclosure - I think the point of this discussion group is to > *intellectually* discuss the Metaphysics of Quality. If someone creates a > pattern of actively working against that point, then I think the discussion > group as a whole should firstly try and show that person an alternative > (which we have been doing for a long time) and if that person has shown no > interest in this alternative - then the group has a right to remove that > person who poses a threat to its values. > > To be clear if Marsha was a good mystic... > > Ant McWatt comments: > > David, can there really be a "bad" mystic? > > > David Harding continued August 2nd 2013: > > ...like Katagiri Roshi say, and she clearly knew what was intellectual and > what wasn't - I would have no issue with that. If Marsha merely wanted to > offer quotes of other mystics(which is what you've claim she does), then > I'd have no issue with that either. In fact, I'd value both those things. > But sadly, Marsha does neither of those things. As DMB says; Marsha will > not merely quote other mystics but also offer her own views which > continually muddy the clear distinction between what is intellectual and > mystical by confusing SOM with certain intellectual values such as clarity, > precision and the assumption that things exist before we experience them. > > Ant McWatt says: > > So you're basically saying (quite correctly, by the way) that Marsha is > giving Context 2 of the MOQ priority over Context 1? > > If so, her difficulty in clearly distinguishing between Context 1 and > Context 2 (and understanding the implications of both perspectives) isn't > exactly rare on this Discussion Board. To quote an off-line e-mail of Paul > Turner to me (dated July 30th 2013): > > 'I had a look at the MD to see more of the thread in which your [post of > July 28th to David Harding was embedded and was dismayed to see that my > paper has been construed by some as advocating the very thing I was trying > to prevent, i.e., arguing for the primacy of one context over the other. > For instance, Dan writes: > > "I remember thinking how the "two contexts" was written to placate > everyone... we can all be correct in one context or the other. I agree with > Arlo that we should not strive to confine our perspective to one context or > the other. They are both limiting in their own fashion. Why do we want to > confine our outlook in that manner? By using both, we expand rationality > rather than limit our perspective." > > Where did I suggest that we should confine ourselves to one context? > Either > Dan has an axe to grind or my writing was so poor as to warrant this > interpretation. Either way, I can only be disappointed.' > > > David Harding continued August 2nd 2013: > > Case in point: > > "[djh] Can you ever see the value of thinking about static quality and > making the assumption that things exist before we think about them? > > [Marsha] There might be good reasons in science to pretend [i.e. make an > assumption]." > > Like you, I'm all for diversity on this forum. And I'm hesitant to call > for Marsha's removal, but I'm with DMB in that it's high time you spoke out > in support of intellectual values and spoke out against anyone expounding > anything against those values [aka Marsha]. > > Ant McWatt comments: > > David, I've already done that recently in my MD post (to Marsha) of July > 31st: > > 'I have learnt much about the MOQ from DMB's Discuss posts over the > years. I think he, Arlo, Paul Turner, Khoo Hock Aun and Gavin Gee-Clough > (to name a few) must have accelerated my own understanding of the MOQ by a > decade if not more. Though you have provided some good links and > references over the years, I can't remember reading one of your numerous > posts and thinking "Hey, that's a good way of putting of that!". The irony > here is the former have applied their knowledge of the MOQ artistically > (you can tell that they've considered Pirsig's ideas and played them > through their own heads) while the production of quotes is very static.' > > And, just to make sure everyone got the message (!???) in the FIRST LINE > of my MD post (to Dan Glover) of July 31st: : > > 'My concern, above all, is the future intellectual quality of this > Discussion group.' > > David, I'm sorry about this but I don't think I can be any clearer about > my "support of intellectual values and [speaking] out against anyone > expounding anything against those values (aka Marsha)" as regards this > Discussion group. > > I have made my point clear about supporting the priority of "intellectual > discussion" for this philosophical group but I'm not joining in on a "witch > hunt" of any sort. Sorry about this but if I want to deal with the > infantile values of a playgroup, I'll open up a nursery. As Paul Turner > noted to me, just yesterday: > > 'The MD is going through a weird phase. I suspect it's very unattractive > for newcomers, which is a shame.' > > In fact, it's also become "very unattractive" for this "old comer" too so > I'm going to unsubscribe from this Discussion group later today. Maybe > David Granger or someone else with a similar academic background can "take > the slack" but I AM not doing it any more. I have my own MOQ work to be > getting on with such as the new cut of the theatrical version of the "On > The Road with Robert Pirsig" movie (recently announced on the Facebook page > for robertpirsig.org), the numerous short films of last December's MSU > Chautauqua to edit and upload, reviews of "Patrick Doorly's forthcoming > "The Truth About Art" book, Alan McManus's recently published "Only Say The > Word" book and my own academic and teaching work to be getting on with. > > You know David when Khoo unsubscribed (and I really don't think that was > down to any personal issue in his life as someone here recently > speculated), I thought then that the days of my own subscription to this > group were numbered. I will check in every few months to see if things > have improved radically regarding the intellectual quality of the posts, > and if it has, then I'll re-consider my position. But for now, I'm outta > here. > > Finally, I'll leave with you two quotes from the Dalai Lama. I hope you > all read AND think about these carefully: > > > Dalai Lama > > August 2nd 2013 > > 'We need to take action to develop compassion, to create inner peace > within ourselves and to share that inner peace with our family and friends. > Peace and warm-heartedness can then spread through the community just as > ripples radiate out across the water when you drop a pebble into a pond.' > > AND > > Dalai Lama > > 8 November 2012 > > 'When we have inner peace, we can be at peace with those around us. When > our community is in a state of peace, it can share that peace with > neighbouring communities and so on. When we feel love and kindness toward > others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us > also to develop inner happiness and peace.' > > > . > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- parser Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
