And this is the point I'm making. You said and agreed with:
"... as Marsha says, the problem we're having is that debating the
intellectual level has become taboo ..."
which is a complete red herring! There isn't and never has been a
problem with discussion of the Intellectual level on MD. It's when the
Intellectual level is equated with Bo's gibberish about the Intellect
being the S/O level nonsense (which Marsha has been shown to agree with
in her own words) that it becomes a problem.
So it's entirely bogus to suggest that discussing the Intellectual level
has become taboo. Marsha is currently using this line to avoid entering
into debate. She has done this several times in the past as a means of
deflecting criticism and has been pulled up each time but still
continues to churn out the same nonsense.
SOM, as a metaphysical system, exists at the Intellectual level and is
encompassed by Intellect so, again there is no problem with SOM or the
S/O divide etc. etc. being discussed. This is all spurious nonsense
that Marsha is aware of but insists on repeating, time and time again,
in order to avoid any meaningful dialogue.
Horse
On 15/08/2013 11:41, Ian Glendinning wrote:
Ho Horse, I didn't say you had, I agreed effectively "it had become" taboo.
Discussion of the intellectual level does involve discussing S/O and
related intellect ideas - unavoidable. (As I've said before at root,
Bo actually had a point - he just didn't necessarily have the right
solution or argument to achieve any agreement. For a while I gave him
the benefit of the doubt with English as his second language, but
eventually, like you I had to agree he wouldn't or couldn't actually
listen to reasonable arguments.)
The real irony is that those who "defend" intellectual quality do
"seem" to do it from a SOMist intellectual perspective - which is
making discussion of alternatives incredibly fractious. But I'm not a
quitter. Hence this thread.
Ian
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Horse <[email protected]> wrote:
Hang on a second - at no point have I said that debating the Intellectual
level is taboo. I have never said anything like that - EVER!
What I have said is that the ridiculous idea that the Intellectual level is
the S/O level, as per Bo's nonsense, is not something that needs any further
discussion - so drop it!
We've been over this idea, ad nauseam, for years and as far as I'm concerned
it's a blind alley (and total shite) and I don't want any more time and
bandwidth wasted on it. It's very simple.
Discussion of the Intellectual level, as per Pirsig, is an entirely
legitimate and reasonable topic of discussion for MD.
Are there really people on this list who are too stupid to understand the
difference or is it just, as I suspect, another means of skirting around
issues that those that don't see the difference (i.e. really are that
stupid) use to justify their own stupidity. Using this nonsense as an
evasive tactic is dishonest and intellectual cowardice.
I'll put it very clearly:
Discussion of Intellectual level as per Robert Pirsig's ideas and writing is
OK.
Discussion of Bo's Intellect = S/O and related ideas is NOT OK
Is this simple enough for everyone?
Horse
On 15/08/2013 10:53, Ian Glendinning wrote:
Arlo, OK, as Marsha says, the problem we're having is that debating
the intellectual level has become taboo, and turned into an excuse to
trade personal insults. Let's try and build from the following
example:
--
"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production
deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
— Frank Zappa
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or dates by which bills must be paid."
— Frank Zappa
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