Adrie. Well,no, i disagree.Pirsig talks about his own life expiriences, and derives insights along that proces.Philosophy is thinking and talking about life.I do think the problem some have with socializing too much,is that there is a big chance to derail from philosophy towards a social club.((best example , John Carl.)
2013/9/11 MarshaV <[email protected]> > > Andie, > > The statement has nothing to do with Buddhism, or traveling towards, or a > perspective, or indifference. What can one say of the unpatterned, the > undifferentiated? The fearful may project it as hell or chaos; the > optimistic may project it as heaven or bliss. All goodness, because it is > all potentiality? That's a nice perspective. But within the > *undifferentiated* their is no you to project or have a perspective. For > those who think I no not appreciate static quality enough, you are very > wrong? But then their seems to be a problem with talking about ones own > life experiences, so I won't say more. > > > Marsha > > > On Sep 10, 2013, at 8:36 PM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <[email protected]> wrote: > > > (Adrie) > > > > 2. From a Dynamic Quality (unpatterened) view nothing is right or wrong, > > better or worse.(Marsha) > > > > > > One of the biggest mistakes of bhuddism, is to take indifference as a > > perspective, a horizon to travel towards. > > > > > > 2013/9/11 MarshaV <[email protected]> > > > >> > >> dmb, > >> > >> If I am to address your complaint I will need a little more information. > >> Please specify your exact complaint with each statement. And please > >> explain to which of the statements each quote that you've provided > applies, > >> and exactly how it specifically justifies your compliant. > >> > >> > >> Marsha > >> > >> p.s. I have changed the word 'will' to 'may' in the fourth statement, > as > >> it is a more appropriate word. If that is enough to dissolve your > >> complaint all the better. > >> > >> > >> Marsha said to djh: > >> > >> 1. I accept the MoQ's idea that the world is nothing but value. > >> > >> 2. From a Dynamic Quality (unpatterened) view nothing is right or > wrong, > >> better or worse. > >> > >> 3. From the static (patterned) view a pattern exist because it is > useful. > >> > >> 4. I also accept that on the static (conventional) level *individual > >> judgements* of what's bad or good may differ because of different static > >> pattern histories and differences in the present dynamic conditions. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:17 AM, david buchanan <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >>> dmb says: > >>> Again, you are confusing the disease with cure. The view that nothing > is > >> right or wrong and the view that everyone has their own individual > >> judgements is the disease. This is exactly what Pirsig about SOM. > >>> > >>> "From the perspective of subject-object science, the world is a > >> completely purposeless, valueless place. There is no point to anything. > >> Nothing is right and nothing is wrong. Everything is just functions, > like > >> machinery. There is nothing morally wrong with being lazy, nothing > morally > >> wrong with lying, with theft, with suicide, with murder, with genocide. > >> There is nothing morally wrong because there are no morals, just > >> functions." (277-8) > >>> > >>> "A scientific, intellectual culture had become a culture of millions of > >> isolated people living and dying in little cells of psychic solitary > >> confinement, unable to talk to one another, really, and unable to judge > one > >> another because scientifically speaking it is impossible to do so. ..He > >> could invent moral goals for himself, but they are just artificial > >> inventions. Scientifically speaking he has no goals." (283) > >>> > >>> Plus, it's contradictory to say the world is nothing but value and > >> nothing is right or wrong. > >>> > >>> "...the Metaphysics of Quality concludes that the old Puritan & > >> Victorian social codes should not be followed [or attacked] blindly … > They > >> should be dusted off and re-examined, fairly and impartially, to see > what > >> they were trying to accomplish and actually did accomplish towards > building > >> a stronger society. ...These moral bads and goods are not just > ‘customs’. > >> They are as real as rocks and trees." > >>> > >>> "In a subject-object understanding of the world these terms have no > >> meaning. There is no such thing as "human rights." There is no such > thing > >> as moral reasonableness. There are subjects and objects and nothing > >> else.This soup of sentiments about logically nonexistent entities can be > >> straightened out by the Metaphysics of Quality. It says that what is > meant > >> by "human rights" is usually the moral code of intellect-vs. -society, > the > >> moral right of intellect to be free of social control... According to > the > >> Metaphysics of Quality these "human rights" have not just a sentimental > >> basis, but a rational, metaphysical basis. They are essential to the > >> evolution of a higher level of life from a lower level of life. They are > >> for real." (307) > >>> > >>> > >>> How can you square your view with Pirsig's text? Crowbars and dynamite, > >> perhaps? > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > > > > -- > > parser > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- parser Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
