Andre, Are you trying to articulate between one interested in self liberation and one on the Bodhisattva path, because I am a mere student, have never claimed otherwise, and have no idea of your high-minded complaints. Marsha
On Oct 10, 2013, at 6:16 AM, Andre Broersen wrote: > Marsha to Andre: > Andre, whose guns do you stick to? > > Andre: > That's not the point Marsha and you know it. I am not making the claims you > make! > When you are constantly trying to undermine the MoQ by appeals to vipassana > experiences, seeing bits and pieces of your self floating by, living in the > now and repeating again and again that all is emptiness anyway(so why bother) > no wonder I find your hypothetical statement about YOUR experience trumping > explanation odd, to say the least. > > Your response above is just another cowardly Lucy action. > > dmb responded: > > There are countless ways to cultivate that of presence of mind and it's clear > that Pirsig is recommending a Zen-like identification with the task at hand - > but it's weird that Marsha thinks her experience "trumps the explanation". > The most obvious reason why this can't be true is that there is no way for > anyone to examine Marsha's experience. We can only examine her explanation of > that experience. When that explanation is placed next to Pirsig's explanation > it's quite easy to see that Marsha has a lot of explaining to do. > > Andre: > Exactly. And that is what she fails do, over and over again. She suggested in > an earlier post she's not interested in Wilber which is a shame because I > find his 'model' pertinently applicable here. Especially the part where he > suggests that first person (interior) experiences are fine (his 'upper left' > quadrant) but there is also the 'lower left quadrant' referring to the > cultural-collective (interior) experiences. This involves communication, > dialogue with people cultivating similar techniques to achieve similar > experiences. It is a safeguard to becoming a culture of one, or becoming > grandioze in your understanding of your own experience. > > The Buddhists have the sangha of course, the community of people following > buddhist practices sharing with eachother their experiences and thoughts. > It's a way of reaching a 'higher', a better understanding of one's own first > person experiences. A sort of 'transcending' of one's egocentric > self-understanding, -interpretation and -explanation. > > Tradesmen and professionals wanting to improve their knowledge and skills to > work on their respective cycles meet and share information and insights on a > daily basis. If I want to improve my cooking skills I do not go to a lawyer. > I meet cooks and read books on the subject preferably in the kitchen for > immediate application and experimentation. > > Needles to say Marsha simply refuses to do this. As matter of fact, she's in > the wrong kitchen all together but she simply doesn't realise this either. > > dmb: > Did somebody say something about missing the point? > > Andre: > My point exactly. > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
