John said to dmb:
... putting any level in control is wrong. The purpose of life is a balancing
act, each level balances off its neighbors. Society needs intellectual
criticism in order to thrive - that's freedom to think of better ways. It does
not need intellectual control, in fact it's impossible. Marx's good ideas
become justification of oligarchy. Good ideas have to be acted on by people in
order to be real, and once you've got that, you've got social competition,
period. So intellectual control, in the end, means that people who think
they're smarter than everybody else, get to tell us what to do. Screw that.
We like their advice. We don't like their control.
dmb says:
So intellectual control, in the end, means that people who think they're
smarter than everybody else, get to tell us what to do?
What's funny here is that this is an example of the conflict that you've
denying. Your characterization of intellectual control fits the classic
definition of anti-intellectualism. It is a denigration and demonization of
intellectual values. You have expressed an attitude that is spoken or written
by some right-winger every single day of the week. This is what conservatives
in their campaigns for office, what the writers say in the National Review and
if you tune in to the Rush Limbaugh show today, chances are good that you'll
hear this same sentiment.
Your statement fits the definition of anti-intellectualism quite neatly, as
Wikipedia shows:
"Anti-intellectualism is hostility towards and mistrust of intellect,
intellectuals, and intellectual pursuits, usually expressed as the derision of
education, philosophy, literature, art, and science, as impractical and
contemptible. ...In public discourse, anti-intellectuals are usually perceived
and publicly present themselves as champions of the common folk—populists
against political elitism and academic elitism—proposing that the educated are
a social class detached from the everyday concerns of the majority, and that
they dominate political discourse and higher education."
Just as Pirsig says, anti-intellectualism only gets worse as we move right on
the spectrum from conservatism to fascism, Wikipedia notes:
"Anti-intellectualism is a common facet of totalitarian dictatorships to
oppress political dissent. The Nazi party's populist rhetoric featured
anti-intellectualism as a common motif, including Adolf Hitler's political
polemic, Mein Kampf. Perhaps its most extreme political form was during the
1970s in Cambodia under the rule of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, when people
were killed for being academics or even for merely wearing eyeglasses (as it
suggested literacy) in the Killing Fields."
This hostility to intellect is a very prominent feature of the conflict between
social and intellectual values. People dominated by social values - including
you, apparently, react negatively to intellectual values. They are perceived as
downright evil in some cases. I heard a right-wing politician describe the
theory of evolution as a Satanic lie, for example. But usually, as Wikipedia
explains and as you demonstrated, this anti-intellectualism presents itself as
a form of populist anti-elitism.
Since the MOQ is an evolutionary morality, drawing distinctions between the
levels is very much like discerning north from south on a compass. You need you
be clear on the core concepts or such a tool will not just be useless, it will
send you in the wrong direction. In terms of the MOQ's levels, I think you
don't know which way is up. I think you are misusing this tool quite badly,
probably because you're bringing your own unexamined social level bias to it.
Same thing is happening, I suppose, when you try to read the MOQ as theism or
try to turn DQ into some Hegelian Absolute. In any case, it's a really rotten
thing to do. You just want the MOQ to reflect your own image, regardless of
what Pirsig says or thinks. It's frustrating to talk philosophy with people who
have respect for ideas and can't be persuaded by reason - and that's almost
always the case with anti-intellectuals like yourself. This really does strike
me as immoral; fills me with disgust.
It's hard to be polite about it and honest about it at the same but I guess I
did alright, considering.
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