0sa fNAN5+qB [email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <CAKPdW3=q+qfj4empzsajdxrg97hkbbxguvkhdreahx2xeo9...@mail.gmail.com> <[email protected]> <cakpdw3nbs58ms5c_kyvg7egtwp97p-qukq5jhnhquiylxyl...@mail.gmail.com> <[email protected]> <cakpdw3nhvdm-souhphvze0fioteykbrov46wakcf5w7t0jg...@mail.gmail.com> <[email protected]> From: Jan-Anders Andersson <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11D201) In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Message-Id: <[email protected]> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 22:09:07 +0200 To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Thanks David Your inlays are quite worthy as John is not the only one that needs some of t= his.=20 I have some discussions now and then who I have to spend some time on to get= what kind of language they'll understand. John doesn't seem to understand y= ours or RMPs, thats sad but it can't just be impossible. JA > 22 jun 2014 kl. 19:49 skrev david <[email protected]>: >=20 >=20 > John insists that Pirsig isn't accounting for something in his explanation= ? >=20 >=20 > John said to Ron: > ... In a word "society". In Pirsig's metaphysics, intellect is on top of= society and distinct from it. I think this was the way Pirsig himself expe= rienced life, but that's not the general experience. Metaphysics deals in u= niversals, much more, generals. I think the MoQ is a slice out of a man's l= ife. ... >=20 >=20 > dmb says: > It's not that Pirsig fails to account for society but rather you don't lik= e his account because "intellect is on top". It seems that this disapproval i= s another symptom of John's anti-intellectualism.=20 >=20 > And what reason does John give for rejecting this account? It's just Pirsi= g's experience, he says, not the general experience. There are so many probl= ems with this argument that it's hard to know where to begin. John has once a= gain exhibited an anti-intellectual attitude, humorously defined as "the bel= ief that my ignorant opinion is just as good as your expert knowledge". And,= more concretely and more importantly, by characterizing Pirsig's account of= "society" as mere personal opinion John has misconstrued the levels as some= thing other than a description of an evolving universe and as a series of hi= storical conflicts. That is to say, Pirsig's account is based on our common h= istory and the current mythos and not mere opinion. His account includes a v= ery large number of examples, any one of which can be found in a common ency= clopedia.=20 >=20 > And this is John's standard operating procedure. He distorts and misconstr= ues Pirsig's ideas and then criticizes Pirsig for his own distorted construc= tions. When he's not doing that, he's offering improvements to the MOQ that a= re already contained in the MOQ. Of course Pirsig's original version has the= advantage of being intelligible. >=20 > It's just an ordinary logical necessity. One MUST understand a thing befo= re one CAN criticize that thing. That's why John can't criticize the MOQ. He= may and he might someday but only if he understands it first. And he refuse= s to believe that anyone could know better than he. That's why John's critic= isms are never worth addressing and why they probably never will be. Bet you= ten bucks he won't even deal with this logical necessity honestly or fairly= . He'll likely dismiss it as mere insult or mere opinion or otherwise evade t= he issue. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
