Ron and Dan, Dan, no I don't think anybody here is a moron. However one certain simplistic conceptualization has taken hold that need to be addressed - what is idealism?
Doing a quick google on the topic turns up this: (from http://idealismandpragmatism.org/project) "it may seem that idealism and pragmatism have little to do with one another and could indeed be seen as intellectual opponents; and some of their defenders have in fact viewed their relation in this way. So, it may appear on the one hand to pragmatists, that the idealist represents just the kind of empty and abstract metaphysical theorizing that they want to overturn, while to idealists on the other hand, the pragmatist may be viewed as offering a position that cannot resolve the problems that concern them, in refusing to engage with such problems properly by offering instead a crude appeal to ‘practical consequences’. It could be assumed, then, that these two traditions will simply confront each other as philosophical opposites. However, on closer inspection, it is clear that historically this has been far from the case, while looking forward, there is much to be learned from exploring common ground, as well as thinking more deeply about where the divergences between them may lie. So, for example, while historically F. H. Bradley and William James presented themselves as at odds in their published writings, in their private correspondences they recognized a greater degree of convergence; and while Peirce on occasion denounced both Kant and Hegel, he also on other occasions expressed his warm appreciation for their views. Likewise, figures like Dewey and Sellars were explicit in claiming a shared ancestry for their respective positions. And more thematically, there is much that suggests how far idealism and pragmatism can be aligned, for example in relation to the question of naturalism and how that should be best conceived, or in relation to skepticism and how that is to be dealt with, or in considering the issue of how social norms arise and how they come to be upheld. Indeed, it is this kind of common ground that explains how many of the most prominent contemporary philosophers, such as Jürgen Habermas, Richard Rorty, Hilary Putnam, Robert Brandom, Richard Bernstein and others, may be said to draw inspiration from *both* these traditions, in finding ways in which they can reinforce one another." So I'm not just pulling my objections out of my head - Idealism is hard to pin down but one common understanding of the term is that it signifies anything that says, Reality is more than merely Objects. A very wide perspective indeed! Pinning down how much more, is a huge task that encompasses many different metaphysical positions, including, I'd say, the MoQ. Thanks for your patience, John PS: I DO think the MOQ melds Pragmatism and Idealism in a unique and interesting way that ought to be presented and considered at conferences such as the one linked above. On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 6:11 AM, Ron Kulp <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 14, 2014, at 8:25 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Idealism is realism fierce opponent. It's not simply a matter of > > "mutually exclusive" it's a matter of mutually hostile. And how the MoQ > > unites them... I have no idea except that so far the interpreters of the > > MOQ have no real conception of what idealism actually is. > > Ron sez: > I think what Pragmatism opposes > Is a particular brand of Idealism > John. I believe British Idealism > As it refers to existentialism and > Phenomenology. > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- "finite players play within boundaries. Infinite players play *with* boundaries." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
