Platt, Thank you for an insightfull response, gives me a lot to mull around. Love the term "electric meat" would make a great band name. I'd say all this rhetoric comes to a hault once you get to energy, huh? Cripes, now I'll be stuck on that one.
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MD] Mystics and Brains Quoting Ron Kulp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Models are very helpful in the prediction of patterns and are vital to > the design process but, working in the design field, I Find that no > matter how well I think I have something designed in cyberspace and > have it "working" there, there is always adjustments To be made when > the design is fabricated. once it is "real" it takes on a new dynamic > and usually must be revised to "work" in reality. > I feel implying intellegent design you must remember a design is > almost allways in process of refinement and if you kinda squint And > turn your head, "patterns of value" just what does that mean? What is > the force that drives betterness In the tumult of chaos? > Platt you may want to check out Dynamism =Any of various theories or > philosophical systems that explain the universe in terms of force or > energy. {empiricism )-( rationalism}based on polaric unities John > Hunter/ Mesmer/Coleridge/Goethe/Hahnemann/Reich > And as it relates to Vitalism = The theory or doctrine that life > processes arise from or contain a nonmaterial vital principle and > cannot be explained entirely as physical and chemical phenomena. It > presupposes the material and is based on a mystical belief system. > Idealism.Aristotle/Wm Harvey/ Hans Driesch Sounds like what your > getting at... > [x] Well, you've put your finger on the problem. What is energy anyway? The way science describes it, "It can neither be created nor destroyed, put together nor taken apart, and the the whole it is neither increasing nor decreasing, remaining always constant. Nevertheless, it undergoes transformations or manifestations, for all types of energy and matter, whether kinetic, thermal, or molecular, are spoken of as 'Forms of Energy.' As a matter of fact, all phenomena in the universe are ultimately nothing but forms of Energy, so that Energy more or less underlies all material things. This is pure physics, but it sounds strangely familiar, and one begins to wonder whether we are discussing physics or Hinduism. Ultimately, it matters not one whit whether we say that all things are forms of Energy or forms of Brahman." (Ken Wilber, "The Spectrum of Consciousness, p. 185) Also covered by your suggestions is the problem of purpose or Teleology. For Pirsig though, it's not a problem. "Neither is there a quarrel between the Metaphysics of Quality and the "teleological" theories which insist that life has some purpose." (Lila, 11) So really "what "I'm getting at" is answers to questions that have baffled mankind for many a moon. (A little Indian lingo there.) Where did the Universe come from? How did life arise from no life? What is the origin of natural law? How does something oblivious to the world become conscious of the world? How does consciousness fit into a mechanistic universe? How does consciousness emerge from a lump of electric meat? What is cause and effect? How come some things apparently happen for no cause at all? And on and on . . . Of course I don't have the answers. But the avenues of inquiry I consider open are God, Universal Consciousness, and Quality -- the latter because of the MOQ. Even Ham's Essence should be included among the avenues, except I can't seem to grasp the concept of "negation" which is key to his explanation. Anyway, thanks for triggering this response which I hope clarifies "what I'm getting at." I like to think I'm open minded to all reasonable theories, but of course, being human I have my biases and prejudices like everyone else. But, I'm sure like you, I try at least to keep my glasses clean. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
