Hi me You know, I used to be a fully paid up member of the secularist cult but my love of reason meant I got thrown out. Of course I've never been anywhere near a church either.
DM ----- Original Message ----- From: "David M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [MD] The Trouble With Wilber > Hi Krim > > You are right they both contest our conceptual framework. > They are both right that we should. Pirsig is better because > he gives us an alternative that is neither authoritarian or > new age 'wet'. Secularism is constructed due to the fear of what > being able to contest concepts and metaphysics entails and makes > possible. Secularism is a form of defence. The problem is like > most security meassures it limits our freedom. I say: so be it, let's > recognise that secularism is a set of values that are contestable. > Let's be free, & not pretend we are not free to contest concepts, > values and metaphysics and recognise that politics is politics. > > DM > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Krimel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:08 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] The Trouble With Wilber > > >> dmb says: >> I'm with Keith here. Wilber's quasi-theological terms make me queasy >> sometimes too, but Krimel's suggestion that he shares anything with the >> religious right really isn't even plausible. One could quote Wilber's >> criticism of that sort of religiosity all day long even if this forum's >> archives were the only available source. >> >> [Krimel] >> This is a small sample: >> >> "Consequently, theories of evolution which, in accordance with the >> philosophies inspiring them, consider the mind as emerging from the >> forces >> of living matter, or as a mere epiphenomenon of this matter, are >> incompatible with the truth about man. Nor are they able to ground the >> dignity of the person." >> -- Pope John Paul II, >> >> "From the very fact the universe is on the whole orderly, in a manner >> comprehensible to our intellect, is evidence that we and it were >> fashioned >> by a common intelligence." >> -- Philip Johnson, >> >> "Our strategy has been to change the subject a bit so that we can get the >> issue of intelligent design, which really means the reality of God, >> before >> the academic world and into the schools." >> -- Phillip Johnson, >> >> "If we are going to save America and evangelize the world, we cannot >> accommodate secular philosophies that are diametrically opposed to >> Christian >> truth." >> -- Jerry Falwell, >> >> "Evolutionary biologists assume methodological naturalism. This is the >> idea >> that only natural causes and processes are allowed to account for the >> complex, information-rich structures of living organisms. So even if God >> exists we would have a God who has nothing to do with origins, the >> development of life. Instead, undirected natural causes explain the >> origin >> and development of life. So, for all practical purposes you assume the >> position of a philosophical naturalist or a scientific atheist if you're >> going to hang your hat on the notion of "undirected natural processes." >> -- Hank Hanegraaff >> >> [Krimel] >> The religious right bashes evolution and scientific materialism (they >> call >> is scientific naturalism) in much the same way and for the same reasons >> Wilber does. >> >> If you think I have quoted people out of context or we want more quotes >> or >> more context just say so. These guys write whole books on the subject. >> Oh, >> thats what Wilber does too. >> >> >> >> moq_discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > > > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
