SA,
There was much agreement, and this was a valiant attempt to put it all together. Thank you. Marsha At 10:45 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: >Ian, Marsha, David, and gav, > > I'm noticing a connection here that with a little >bit here and this over here, yes, and put it together >and a perspective might be lining up. > > David said this, "Therefore one can have a social >'thought', but unless it is manipulated in some way >then it is only social. Once this 'thought' is >manipulated using the rules of grammar, logic or >mathematics then one is being intellectual." > > gav said, "the intellectual level is about ideas. >ideas and the relationships between ideas, which are a >higher level of ideas... and so on... until an >intellectual/intuitive apprehension of the "whole* is >gained > > Marsha said, "As a result, their best >mathematicians were unable to use the principles of >geometry for anything unrelated to real world >problems--they did not take their system of >mathematics and turn it into an abstract system of >logic. They were also not inclined to put math into >their philosophy. The Greeks were different; they >embraced the abstract and the philosophical, and >brought mathematics to its highest point in ancient >times..." > > Marsha, you also pointed out Archemedes principle >of buoyancy and how this principle could be used to >make a boat somewhere else, even out of sight of a >boat already made. > > It is this manipulation of symbols were we can >pick them up, that is pick these ideas up and rove, >wander, move-about with these ideas and use them in >another location out of sight of where the idea comes >from. The abstract system of logic, math, and grammer >uses an idea/thought in further manipulation, as gav >says, "...ideas, ideas, and relationships between >ideas..." Using this abstraction system we can make >new thoughts, principles, and understandings. It is >somewhat as you pointed out Marsha, a impractical >system, but not necessarily impracticality proves that >we're using this intellectual abstract system. As >Pirsig said, he's maintaining a motorcycle. This is a >practical machine that can help transport you from >point A to point B to visit, vacation, go to work, >etc... It is walking on wheels. > This abstract system of logic math, and grammer >that lifts an idea into abstraction further >abstraction and further abstraction, that builds >relationships between other abstract thoughts. As >Archemedes made a 'short-cut' principle that helps >somebody understand how to make a better boat without >having to go through all the old mistrials, hang-ups, >and such. These short-cut, abstract systems quicken >our experience of how to make a boat. Using these >short-cut, abstract systems upon the intellectual >level we don't have to build the computer over again >and come up with all the principles in how this >computer might work, etc... These abstract systems >can jump-start a teenager to by-pass what took >generations to do, and this teenager can build a >computer. Not necessary from scratch, that's the >whole point, the teenager uses an abstract system that >catapults the youth to making a computer without >starting from scratch. > I don't find this abstract system to be strictly >impractical as the outcomes can circulate from the >intellectual level back into the social level and >technology - things can be made. Societies made >better, etc... Abstract systems are thought >experiments that physicists perform. These thought >experiments move around the mind and on paper and what >works and doesn't work can be abstracted without >having to go into the $ of making this experiment and >that experiment to find out what will lead the >experiment upon the best path. Still the experiment >will be performed and may not work well, and new >avenues of abstract thought are opened to discover >what might have went off-track, but at least one >doesn't have to experiment and thus, experience over >and over again to see what is practical, meaning what >will work on all levels in a more harmonious and >better way. > > >thanks. > >woods, >SA > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel >today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 > > >moq_discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
