Hi gav ... inserted ... On 7/5/07, gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ian you don't get what i said. > > ian: > > I have to say I don't buy the idea that the descent > > into chaos is > > inevitable with all the issues currently at global > > scale - economy, > > sustainability, religious intolerance, warmongering > > etc. > > we already have descended into chaos; accept it; enjoy > it.
[IG] (we come to the "what to do about it" later), but there are still depths we could decend further - detsruction of the planet say ... we ain't there yet. > > > I can't > > accept that it's OK if we self-destruct the > > planetary ecosystems - go > > the way of the dodo - natural though it would indeed > > be. > > that's not for you to judge. [IG] I agree, about man (me) not being the judge of what is right for the cosmos ... see the final comment ... but surely I can value my own existence, even ego-less ... > > For reasons I > > couldn't explain I share Jeffrey Sachs optimism that > > enough of us have > > noticed the "inevitable cycle" to influence > > proceedings before the > > next cycle of destruction reaches global > > proportions. If we haven't > > noticed, enough to act, then we are surely not the > > intelligent beings > > we think we are. > > 1. as i explicitly stated mankind is now, on average, > at its dumbest ever. this is a simple fact. the very > fact that we spend hours trawling over the same dead > ground on this list is testament to that. [IG] I agree ... something I'm trying to change ... my "quest". > 2. it ain't up to 'us' to fix things; it is up to 'us' > to stop fucking shit up. [IG] Agreed ... that was my concluding point ... we would be less dumb (as a species) if more of us got that (as you do.) > 3. the only way to stop 'us' fucking shit up is to > become oneself, instead of 'one of us' > [IG] I guess this is where I disagree and say it's not "the only way" ... but I respect the "practice what you preach" line .... becoming an ego-less self > > > > The "man become god" arrogance - the zenith of ego > > etc, is the issue > > we need to unlearn. > > again you don't get it. [IG] I think I do, but this is the point where we don't entirely agree. > 1. man is fundamentally god first of all; as is > everything of course. > 2. to become *consciously* god is the teleology of > man. it is the purpose to which we have given > ourselves into earthly existence. [IG] Understood ... becoming god in "giving ourselves" this purpose ... is the bad news, unless as you say we also get through your "ineluctable" third point. > 3. transcending the ego (ie moving beyond the zenith) > is ineluctably part of this evolution of > consciousness. [IG] I think you are right. I said unlearn, you say learn to transcend. The difference between us is I am concerned with how we make that point more apparent to enough people in "positions of power" to change their course of action, whereas you have "given up" on all those hopeless bastard egos. But I respect you doing it your way by your own example, I just ain't quite ready for that, yet. > > > Ishmael (Quinn) is about > > precisely that - learning > > that the most intelligent position is to get out of > > nature's way. > > we are nature. in a way you are right: we need to get > out of our own way: the external, social, static 'me' > has to make way for the internal, natural, dynamic > 'me' [IG] Agreed ... I still intend to use the more traditional "me" to spread that knowledge through all those other ego's that are "fucking things up". Success is to be able to drop that kind of me - to make "me" redundant - I do get it. No gain without pain (and risks) my way, I appreciate. Thanks Gav, Ian > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo!7 Mail has just got even bigger and better with unlimited storage on > all webmail accounts. > http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html > > > > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
