> [Krimel] > This is one of the most depressing, fatalistic, sad > things I have yet read > in this forum.
[gav] no. that you find it sad and depressing is revelatory of a reactionary retreat from half of life: the minus side; destruction, dissolution, disintegration. [Krimel] Any such retreat can only be temporary. Since participating in life and striving for its renewal is all I have, pardon me if I try to have a bit of fun in the process. > [Krimel] > It suggests a seriously distorted > perspective. Death, > destruction, Shiva, war, extinction... My God man > the glass can be seen as > half full too, you know. There is the other side of > the coin. I suggest you > focus on it a bit. I mean, we are all going to die! > Come on. [gav] which is why i talk of creation in tandem. point is to accept both sides. [Krimel] Right life re-evolving from the ashes. Lots of sunshine in that. Makes me fell all warm and fuzzy about extinction. > [Krimel] > As for the heart being smarter than the head, > children and animals wiser > than adults. PULEZZZ. What clever sounding nonsense. [gav] really? [Krimel] Yes really. Children are notoriously self centered. Their moral judgments are typically based on whether or not they will get in trouble for what they do. Animals are so similarly oriented that biologists continue to argue as to whether anything like altruism even exists much less how to account for it. When Buddha advises us to retain the beginner's mind and Jesus says that we should be born again, they are not advocating a return to self centered morality they are advising us to see the world through fresh eyes. To avoid being trapped in calcified conceptions and to be open to new possibilities. > [Krimel] > Thoughtful reflection > is not causing problems, it is blind lusting after > emotion. The heart can be > filled with love or hate. Listening to it can get > you in trouble either way. [gav] the id and the ego are both obstacles in the path [Krimel] As I mentioned to dmb not long ago Freud works as art and literature but not much else. These unconscious forces are precisely what you are saying we should yield to. > [Krimel] > All that manipulation you see is not people with > brains manipulating other > people with brains. It is people with brains > manipulating the emotions of > people who don't think. Advertising, marketing and > spin doctoring is smart > people pulling the strings of people who think with > their hearts and spackle > it over with rationalization. The antidote is not > more heartfelt thinking. [gav] yes it is. [Krimel] So you are saying that John Hinckley who was driven by love of Jodie Foster would be a good role model? Harris and Klebold, McVey, suicide bombers, stalkers and child molesters are all thinkers of the heart. Perhaps we should give serious attention to Pat Robertson whose appeal is primarily emotional. Jerry Springer's guests think mostly with their hearts as do aficionados of afternoon soap operas, professional wrestling and NASCAR. The Raygun/Bush crowd are driven by the emotions in the form of faith and nationalism. Is this what we need more of? moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
