After re-reading my response to Dyna's post, my
reaction is a bit more emotionally raw than I like and
touches on things outside city specifics.

For those who would still like to read the full thing
(and get links to download a couple great songs as
well as a lot of references to major political/labor
issues), please feel free to do so  here:

http://www.isnt.com/mpls.htm

I would ask anyone who intends to respond to my post
to read the full text at the previous link and I give
anyone permission to use things posted there on the
primary list (within limits of the list rules, of
course).

What follows is an abridged version:

>> If people go to Olin because they think Don, is a
>> union basher, it will apparently be because of lies
>> and propaganda.
>> 
>       Jason, are you saying that working folks are so
>       dumb that we'll be persuaded by "lies and
>       propaganda"?

We are ALL dumb enough that we are persuaded by lies
and propaganda. Ever had a commercial jingle caught in
your head? Ever been making a product purchase where
you didn't have a strong brand opinion and found
yourself leaning towards one you had seen an ad on?
Propaganda works, otherwise we (as a culture) wouldn't
spend so much on marketing.

Without active exposure, lies work too, especially
when repeated over and over (repitition is a very
effective way of planting concepts).

>> Dyna, When did Samuels bash the unions?

> When he ignored the reasonably priced local union
> printing shops and instead gave his printing job to
> a non union shop.

Ok. We've established that your claims of Don Samuels'
"union bashing" is soley based on his use of a
northside print shop that is not a union shop.

We strongly disagree whether this is, in and of
itself, anti-labor. We also disagree whether or not it
is anti-union although, as I have said, I am concerned
far more with labor than the unions.

We also disagree on whether or not there is a
difference between labor and unions.

Getting into it...

>> Provide evidence. Going to a small local print shop
>> that has not unionized is NOT union bashing.
>
> In politics it is. Printing is a very competitive
> business and the rates quoted by union and nonunion
> shops will be pretty similar. There is thusly no
> financial incentive to excuse Don Samuels' use of a
> non union printer. Unless he's getting the printing 
> "donated"... In which case a bit of financial
> disclosure is in order.

Interesting. I would consider it far more union
bashing if a union shop had somewhat higher prices to
cover fairer wages and benefits and someone got around
those higher costs by going to a non-union shop.

I'm far more concerned with how the workers are
treated and compensated than whether or not they are
unionized.

If the costs are roughly the same, as you say, then
he's not bashing the unions in this manner. It's
interesting that you automatically jump to the worst
conclusion possible without pausing to consider other
reasons he may have gone to this printer.

Perhaps he's friends with someone at the printer
(certainly a factor I take in to consideration when
I'm looking for contract work). Perhaps he was making
a political statement by choosing a neighborhood
printer. To tell the truth, I'd be amazed if he even
considered the union status of the printer because a
Democrat taking an anti-union stance would be
committing political suicide.

I'd agree that if some or all of the printing costs
were donated (no quotes), those donations should be
disclosed. I would hope that both candidates will make
this information available far enough before the
February election to allow interested parties to
review and analyze it.

> So when is Don Samuels going to answer these
> questions- especially the "living wage" one?

I'd be very interested in hearing that answer from
both Don and Olin. My preferred candidate had an
approach, but he's no longer in the race.

Personally, I'd like to see a candidate commit that
they will oppose any city money or contract going
towards any company that does not have a living wage
and benefit policy (including domestic partner
benefits) and that gives locally owned and staffed
businesses a X% bonus when comparing bid prices since
the city will recoup some money via taxes.

>> More Full Disclosure:
>> I support organized labor, but I am torn when it
>> comes to some of the unions. Interestingly, a
>> steward I spoke with a couple months ago seemed to
>> share these perceptions: Unions as a organizing
>> tool for labor is a good thing. Unions as another
>> hierarchy of bullies controlling labor is a bad
>> thing.
>
> More anti union lies. Union leadership is elected
> by the workers. Corporate bullies are not.

If you have any interest in my response to this,
please go to : http://www.isnt.com/mpls.htm

- Jason Goray, Sheridan, NE

PS: I just read the posts regarding the L in DFL
meaning Labor. Note that it isn't DFU for Union. If it
was, the DFL'd have to back the IWW which, while it'd
be cool, is pretty unlikely. If the DFL really
supported labor, then I'd never see them going into a
Target or partaking of any of a number of other
anti-labor practices.


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