Mr. Atherton - For the last time, smoking in public places is NOT a right! It is a privilege that is regulated by law - no amount of tortured reasoning can change that!
Your "smoking room" idea evidently had no support in Minneapolis and is not part of anyone's discussion except yours! If you think that I am "self absorbed" because I do not endorse your "smoking room" idea, so be it, I've been called worse. I know you are exercised that your "smoking room" idea wasn't included in a survey but that does not render that survey invalid. The fact that the results of a survey do not reflect your opinion of how things should be does not make the survey results "unethical". When someone chooses to smoke they exhale the residue into the air of everyone around them - which does have a "direct impact" on those people! If one wishes to satisfy some inner craving and have an unlit cigarette or cigar dangling between their lips so be it - that would be a personal choice that does not have an impact on others! Your "political philosophy" that you said you spent so much time developing is yours to keep and cherish and I wish you good luck with it! But please, do not insult the rest of us by asserting that we do not respects the right and choices of others because we do not embrace your personal "political philosophy"!! Jim Bernstein Fulton -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Atherton Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 3:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mpls] Smoking Ban: What to do now? Jim Bernstein wrote: > Mr. Atherton - You can believe whatever you want if you changed the > wording of the question but, the question as asked is precise and not > misleading! As I pointed out earlier, you will never know what percentage of residents would have supported banning smoking in bars and restaurants only, nor will you ever know what percentage would have supported smoking rooms because no one ever asked, and the sponsors of the survey obviously didn't what the public to know. Is it unethical to represent questionable survey results as completely accurate? I think so, but apparently you don't. I suppose it's a matter of how you define what is is. > As for "interning Japanese citizens", I assume that you are > referring to the sad events of 1942 when American citizens of > Japanese descent were interned for the duration of WWII out of > fear that they might be collaborators. I cannot figure out what > this has to do with an ordinance prohibiting smoking in > Minneapolis bars and restaurant commencing in 2005, but you > obviously see some connection! Yes, I obviously do see a connection and you apparently do not. I will try and make the connection clear. Here is my basic point: If people are unwilling to respect the rights and choices of others when it has no direct impact on them, how are they likely to do so in circumstances involving personal risk? That is, if you are so self-absorbed that you can't allow people to smoke in a contained area, why would you risk your career or the safety of your family to stand up for the rights of someone who your government is saying is a danger to you? Anecdotally, in my life I can't recall anyone who wouldn't respect small rights, but would stand up and fight for big ones. And... all most all of the social and psychological research that I've studied confirms this expectation. Keep in mind that the American public knew no more about what was happening to the Japanese than the German public knew was happening to the Jews. Also keep in mind that in surveys many Americans do not recognize the value of the rights granted to others in the Constitution. I have spent a considerable amount of time developing a political philosophy that would provide maximum benefits and liberty to the greatest number of people, but for it to work you have to respect the rights and choices of others. My philosophy will never be popular because so many people are unwilling to give up their power to force their morality and values on others. Gay marriage and smoking are just two of many examples. Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
