Hello, here is a digest from shortly after I joined Neonixie, in early
2004. So I have been here just a little while. I also coordinated the over
1000 tube Richardson group buy. I chip something into the group every now
and then. I also post once and a while when I list something on E-bay
that might be interesting to the group. So I don't see any problems with
Dieters post/advertizing. Dieter has added a lot to the group, his post is
directly related to our hobby. If Dieter does well he is more likely to be
going out and finding more tubes and new types of Nixies for all of the
rest of us. Over the years I have seen a lot of people post new clocks
etc that they have up for sale. So the long and short of it is I see no
problem with the occasional blurb. The next one may be for that item you
never knew you had to have.
In Shameless Commerce
Tim Laing
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: [NEONIXIE-L] Digest Number 1053
From: neonixi...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, February 28, 2004 8:58 am
To: neonixi...@yahoogroups.com
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There are 19 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: New NMEA parser
From: "Chris" <fixit...@aol.com>
2. Re: New NMEA parser
From: "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeak...@pacific.net>
3. Re: Re: Lies in PICland
From: "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeak...@pacific.net>
4. Re: Poor data maintenance in PICland
From: "Chris" <fixit...@aol.com>
5. Re: Re: New NMEA parser
From: "J.C. Wren" <jcw...@jcwren.com>
6. Re: New NMEA parser
From: "barnlop" <nailed_barna...@hotmail.com>
7. Re: Re: Poor data maintenance in PICland
From: "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeak...@pacific.net>
8. Re: Poor data maintenance in PICland
From: "Nick de Smith" <n...@desmith.net>
9. More Nixie Patents Found
From: "Peter J. Stonard" <pston...@ix.netcom.com>
10. Re: Lies in PICland
From: David Forbes <dfor...@dakotacom.net>
11. software for programmer
From: "toomuchcoffee23" <toomuchcoffe...@yahoo.com>
12. Re: Lies in PICland
From: "Chris" <fixit...@aol.com>
13. Re: New NMEA parser
From: "Chris" <fixit...@aol.com>
14. Re: More Nixie Patents Found
From: "Sal Brisindi" <tubema...@yahoo.com>
15. Radio Controlled Atomic Clock
From: "James Drosopoulos" <jcd550...@aol.com>
16. Re: More Nixie Patents Found
From: "Alan J. Franzman" <a.j.franz...@verizon.net>
17. Tho real atomic wristwatch, was: Radio Controlled Atomic Clock
From: "Jorgen Lund-Nielsen" <dj...@web.de>
18. Re: Radio Controlled Atomic Clock
From: "Chris" <fixit...@aol.com>
19. Re: Tho real atomic wristwatch, was: Radio Controlled Atomic Clock
From: "Chris" <fixit...@aol.com>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:58:10 -0000
From: "Chris" <fixit...@aol.com>
Subject: Re: New NMEA parser
--- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "J.C. Wren" <jcwren@j...> wrote:
<Cut to the quick>
there's
> no reason you couldn't hardcode some waypoints in,
There is, No chip, beit a pic or any other, can take into memory
every waypoint I am able to visit. I think you are suggesting a much
grander project, perhaps the one you have recently finished !
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:36:50 -0800
From: "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeak...@pacific.net>
Subject: Re: New NMEA parser
The 16F88 has 4k of code space, and it is easy to use a serial EEPROM like
the MCP24C256. Then you would have oodles of room for hardcoded waypoints.
Jonathan
www.madlabs.info
----- Original Message -----
From: "J.C. Wren" <jcw...@jcwren.com>
To: <neonixi...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: [NEONIXIE-L] New NMEA parser
> I dunno if those brain-dead PICs have enough code space, but there's
> no reason you couldn't hardcode some waypoints in, and show range and
> bearing from where you are a selected waypoint. I've got those
> algorithms in C around here. They were used in the vehicle tracking
> project I worked on.
>
> --jc
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:44:09 -0800
From: "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeak...@pacific.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Lies in PICland
Chris,
So did it tolerate the 25mA worth of LED, or did that cause it to shut down
too? I have a device I made that draws about 20mA from a 16F819 pin, and it
has worked non stop for several months now. I must admit I don't usually run
such large loads straight from a pin, so I don't know how well it works in
general.
Jonathan
www.madlabs.info
> > How about measuring what you actually get out or you'll never know
> > now !
>
> I should add that that's after I just measured an example of a
> 16f872.
> I get 25mA through a 3.3V LED and 28mA when I short across the LED,
> as quickly as my meter can respond and display 28mA the output is
> shut of by internal protection (I assume).
>
> Chris
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:04:44 -0000
From: "Chris" <fixit...@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Poor data maintenance in PICland
--- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeakall@p...>
wrote:
> Chris,
>
> So did it tolerate the 25mA worth of LED, or did that cause it to
shut down
> too? I have a device I made that draws about 20mA from a 16F819
pin, and it
> has worked non stop for several months now. I must admit I don't
usually run
> such large loads straight from a pin, so I don't know how well it
works in
> general.
>
> Jonathan
>
> www.madlabs.info
Heya Jonathan
It copes just fine.....one project I've had running for over a year
still puts out 26mA actually, into an LED with no resistor. (I think
I interpreted 'can drive led's directly' too literally, or well,
maybe not !)
As for the sink limit, I haven't bothered to go above the 25mA from
an output pin, but they withstand that no problem. If you need more
you only need to parallel inputs or outputs till you get the required
capacity I suppose !
Chris
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:11:27 -0500
From: "J.C. Wren" <jcw...@jcwren.com>
Subject: Re: Re: New NMEA parser
You can always hardcode your house, your mom's house, or your
favorite repair shoppe. I'm not advocating storing waypoints as you go,
or anything like that, just 1 or 3 significant waypoints. Besides,
generally speaking, that information is more for entertainment purposes
than useful navigation.
--jc
Chris wrote:
> --- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "J.C. Wren" <jcwren@j...> wrote:
> <Cut to the quick>
> there's
> > no reason you couldn't hardcode some waypoints in,
>
> There is, No chip, beit a pic or any other, can take into memory
> every waypoint I am able to visit. I think you are suggesting a much
> grander project, perhaps the one you have recently finished !
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:21:20 -0000
From: "barnlop" <nailed_barna...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New NMEA parser
--- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <fixitsan@a...> wrote:
> --- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "J.C. Wren" <jcwren@j...> wrote:
> <Cut to the quick>
> there's
> > no reason you couldn't hardcode some waypoints in,
>
> There is, No chip, beit a pic or any other, can take into memory
> every waypoint I am able to visit. I think you are suggesting a much
> grander project, perhaps the one you have recently finished !
Heh. You could use a nice visible reference point and calculate from a
calendar:
14.42 - you are 251,000 miles from Tycho Crater!
Neil :)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:51:16 -0800
From: "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeak...@pacific.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Poor data maintenance in PICland
Chris,
We are getting a little OT here, but I thought it was a no-no to parallel
pins for more current?
Jonathan
www.madlabs.info
>
> As for the sink limit, I haven't bothered to go above the 25mA from
> an output pin, but they withstand that no problem. If you need more
> you only need to parallel inputs or outputs till you get the required
> capacity I suppose !
>
> Chris
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:04:26 -0000
From: "Nick de Smith" <n...@desmith.net>
Subject: Re: Poor data maintenance in PICland
--- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeakall@p...>
wrote:
> Chris,
>
> We are getting a little OT here, but I thought it was a no-no to
parallel
> pins for more current?
Its not that uncommon with CPLDs etc. You've just got to remember to
drive both pins in the same direction ;-)
Also, you should place a current sharing/limiting load resistor on
each pin before commoning them...
Nicko
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:13:42 -0000
From: "Peter J. Stonard" <pston...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: More Nixie Patents Found
Greetings,
I've found more Patents relating to "Glow Tubes" or "Read-Out Tubes"
(what they called Nixies before they called them Nixies).
Also, see the thread starting with Message 16784
To Wit:
(1) Hancock Nov-50 2618760 Glow Tube Anode Construction
(2) Maynard Jul-56 2756366 Luminous Discharge Tube And System
(3) Hamel Feb-59 2874320 Indicating Device
(1) 2618760 Was assigned to Northrup Aircraft, makes 9 claims, and
places multiple anode grid wires between the cathodes. I don't think
we have seen a commercial tube with this construction.
(2) 2756366 Was assigned to National Union Electric Corp., makes 12
claims, and describes the end view tube we know as an NU GI-21. Hand
formed wire numerals. Except to the NU GI-21 is that there is no
dedicated anode, the unlit cathodes form the anodes for the lit
numeral.
(3) 2874320 Was assigned to Burroughs and makes 16 claims. This
patent defines the top view Nixie we know today, and goes into detail
on how the productivity of these tubes was improved by mass stamping
of the cathode symbols. Further it claims the application of
insulating materials to the rear of the cathode electrodes, allowing
glow from the front only and greater density in stacking the
cathodes. It also claims the stacking method of common mounting holes
on each cathode electrode and insulator 'washers'.
Comments Welcome!
--
Peter J. Stonard
Office phone/voicemail: (408) 377 7496
Cell phone/voicemail: (408) 489 2862
website: www.stonard.com
email: pston...@ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:25:11 -0700
From: David Forbes <dfor...@dakotacom.net>
Subject: Re: Lies in PICland
At 7:19 PM +0000 2/26/04, Chris wrote:
>--- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <fixitsan@a...> wrote:
>> --- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, David Forbes <dforbes@d...>
>wrote:
>> > I don't see how they can claim that this part sources 25mA. The
>Voh
>> > typical is 2.7V with 5V supply! Vol is better, at 0.7V typical.
>The
>> > output voltage is highly temperature-dependent, and the temp
>shown
>> is
>> > the die temp, which will increase as you load the output and
>those
>> > wimpy output transistors heat up due to ohmic losses.
>> >
>> > Conclusion: Use external FETs for the high side drivers, and
>don't
>> > expect it to work over a big temp range.
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > --David Forbes, Tucson, AZ
>>
>> How about measuring what you actually get out or you'll never know
>> now !
>
>I should add that that's after I just measured an example of a
>16f872.
>I get 25mA through a 3.3V LED and 28mA when I short across the LED,
>as quickly as my meter can respond and display 28mA the output is
>shut of by internal protection (I assume).
>
>Chris
Chris,
Perhaps I'm being too conservative here. I tend to design circuits so
that they are guaranteed to work over temperature and processes
variations, with little change in the output value (brightness in
this case). It's a habit I picked up from the embedded computer
industry.
I admit that the chip will drive 25 mA at room temperature if you
don't care about the output voltage. However, the resistorless LED
application is not something you'll find recommended by anyone who
does this for a living!
I'd recommend installing a series resistor and using that for a
current meter, rather than placing a milliammeter across the chip's
output pin to ground. It's easier on the chip, and a better way to
test output voltage vs current draw.
I'll do this test after I get my LEDs in hand and write some test code.
--
--David Forbes, Tucson, AZ
http://www.cathodecorner.com/
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:56:42 -0000
From: "toomuchcoffee23" <toomuchcoffe...@yahoo.com>
Subject: software for programmer
i am thinking about realizing my next nixie - project with an 8048
controller, just to use components from (nearly) the same time. i
have some 8748 and i found an old programmer with an add-on to
program these controllers, too. but unfortunately the disk with the
software is bad.
maybe someone knows the device and can tell me where i can find the
software:
www.midian.de/nixie/eprommer_fairy.jpg
-- klaus
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:27:44 -0000
From: "Chris" <fixit...@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Lies in PICland
--- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, David Forbes <dforbes@d...> wrote:
> I'd recommend installing a series resistor and using that for a
> current meter, rather than placing a milliammeter across the chip's
> output pin to ground. It's easier on the chip, and a better way to
> test output voltage vs current draw.
>
> I'll do this test after I get my LEDs in hand and write some test
code.
>
> --
>
> --David Forbes, Tucson, AZ
> http://www.cathodecorner.com/
Good ! Then there's no need for me to do it if you insist on doing
it. thanks ;-)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:34:23 -0000
From: "Chris" <fixit...@aol.com>
Subject: Re: New NMEA parser
--- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "J.C. Wren" <jcwren@j...> wrote:
> You can always hardcode your house, your mom's house, or your
> favorite repair shoppe. I'm not advocating storing waypoints as
you go,
> or anything like that, just 1 or 3 significant waypoints. Besides,
> generally speaking, that information is more for entertainment
purposes
> than useful navigation.
>
> --jc
>
hhhmmmm....despite appearances, I haven't got the full gps bug , I
don't think. So it's not a project I would wish to develop. But I
agree it would make a great final year project for a budding student !
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 05:48:36 -0000
From: "Sal Brisindi" <tubema...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More Nixie Patents Found
--- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "Peter J. Stonard" <pstonard@i...> wrote:
***snip***
>
> (2) 2756366 Was assigned to National Union Electric Corp., makes 12
> claims, and describes the end view tube we know as an NU GI-21. Hand
> formed wire numerals. Except to the NU GI-21 is that there is no
> dedicated anode, the unlit cathodes form the anodes for the lit
> numeral.
>
****snip****
> Peter J. Stonard
***snip****
Peter,
I happen to have a National Union NU GI-21 nixie tube. The glass is
silvered a bit but the cathodes are noticable. The unique thing
about this tube is the hand formed cathodes as you mentioned. I can light
up the numbers and take photos of it if the you/the group
wants me to.
Regards,
Sal Brisindi
www.tuberadios.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 06:00:05 -0000
From: "James Drosopoulos" <jcd550...@aol.com>
Subject: Radio Controlled Atomic Clock
Found this ad for a Radio Controlled Atomic Clock. Seems
something similar to the Heatkhit Most Accurate Clock. Could the
receiver section form the basis of a very accurate timebase for a
Nixie clock? Here's the URL. Any comments or ideas?
Jim
Jumbo Display Atomic Clock Radio Item: WW-3110 Price: $69.95
http://tinyurl.com/ypumk (they also have Atomic Digital Watches)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 07:28:31 -0000
From: "Alan J. Franzman" <a.j.franz...@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: More Nixie Patents Found
--- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "Sal Brisindi" <tubeman59@y...>
wrote:
> I happen to have a National Union NU GI-21 nixie tube. The glass
> is silvered a bit but the cathodes are noticable. The unique thing
> about this tube is the hand formed cathodes as you mentioned. I
> can light up the numbers and take photos of it if the you/the
> group wants me to.
Sal,
There are already GI-21 images in:
Photo Albums > Nixie Tubes > Front Lit > Numeric- End View
Photo Albums > Nixie Tubes > Front Unlit
But if you wanted to show every digit we could give it its own
subfolder.
I seem to remember a side view uploaded by Peter Stonard but I can't
find it now.
The fancier of two styles of GI-21 boxes I have can be seen at:
Photo Albums > Nixie Boxes
A.J.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 17
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:34:02 -0000
From: "Jorgen Lund-Nielsen" <dj...@web.de>
Subject: Tho real atomic wristwatch, was: Radio Controlled Atomic Clock
--- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "James Drosopoulos"
<JCD5505DL@A...> wrote:
>
>
> Found this ad for a Radio Controlled Atomic Clock. Seems
> something similar to the Heatkhit Most Accurate Clock. Could the
> receiver section form the basis of a very accurate timebase for a
> Nixie clock? Here's the URL. Any comments or ideas?
>
> Jim
>
> Jumbo Display Atomic Clock Radio Item: WW-3110 Price: $69.95
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ypumk (they also have Atomic Digital Watches)
Hello,
those are all no real atomic clocks,
look at the ONLY TRUE ATOMIC WRISTWATCH!!! ;-)
http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/index.htm
Jorgen
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 18
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:54:51 -0000
From: "Chris" <fixit...@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Controlled Atomic Clock
--- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "James Drosopoulos"
<JCD5505DL@A...> wrote:
>
>
> Found this ad for a Radio Controlled Atomic Clock. Seems
> something similar to the Heatkhit Most Accurate Clock. Could the
> receiver section form the basis of a very accurate timebase for a
> Nixie clock? Here's the URL.
Any comments or ideas?
>
> Jim
>
My first (instinctive) comment - Wow , that's expensive ! There are
far far cheaper versions of this type of clock available but, it's a
good start.
It may even be possible to convert the seven segment output display
into a nixie display; as we saw in the past couple of days, if you
want a 24hr display make sure the led's are actually fitted in the
tens of hours position so that it can actually display 2's (Though I
suspect they are as WWVB/MSF outputs are 24hrs)
A couple of group memebrs were working on a receiver design for
receiving these signals. The problem with the receivers they mass
produce is that they generally aren't the most sensitive or
selective. Once you have the receiver output then you need some
further processing to extract the timecode and convert it into a
format your clock can display....a bit like tuning into a radio
station which might have a foreign speaking presenter - it still
needs to be translated. There was a time when I might have said that
that was a job best left upto a microcontroller, but Hans Summers'
TTL logic decoder proves that anything is possible (and also that any
Microcontroller version had better be really really good!)
Rather than build your own receiver, or strip out an existing
project, the third option is to buy the modules you need from a third
party like Galleon.
<http://www.galleon.eu.com/OEM-Receivers-MSF.htm>
Those small modules work together to give serial output of the time
data. This needs to be displayed somehow on your clock display, and
you need to fill this gap with, again, either a microcontroller or
some more of that legendary TTL. As I'm writing this I recall seeing
a chip which was a combined receiver/decoder which needed very few
extra components, still needs another interface to the display though.
I'ld be interested in converting one of the existing LCD clocks, I
have two, but haven't the time to write the software needed to
convert either the 1PPS or the LCD display output signals to a type
which can be easily displayed on nixies.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 19
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:06:11 -0000
From: "Chris" <fixit...@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Tho real atomic wristwatch, was: Radio Controlled Atomic Clock
--- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "Jorgen Lund-Nielsen" <dj0ud@w...>
wrote:
> --- In neonixi...@yahoogroups.com, "James Drosopoulos"
> <JCD5505DL@A...> wrote:
> >
> >
>
> those are all no real atomic clocks,
> look at the ONLY TRUE ATOMIC WRISTWATCH!!! ;-)
>
> http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/index.htm
>
>
> Jorgen
I've got a rubidium source here measuring less than 30mm x 7mm x 6mm.
with built in photoreceptor. All I need is a miniature rubidium lamp,
or 780nm led and I'll have the second true atomic wristwatch !!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________
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