Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes

[Instrument Resources of America]

There are a LOT of WANNABE's out there that do NOT have the slightest 
clue as to what is involved in such a venture!!!   Ira.

On 4/21/2017 9:41 AM, chuck richards wrote:
Dalibor,

Thanks again for all that you do.

You obviously have devoted your whole life for the past several
years to the manufacturing of high-quality brand new large nixie
tubes.

There will always be some folks on the side-lines who want to
talk about and to theorize about "better" and "cheaper" methods
of tube production.

Not bloody likely!!

What you have accomplished is most remarkable!

I especially like reading the part where you explain that
computers and automation don't help much.

That is a fact that people who have never tried any production
methods will argue with.  But, as you point out, once one actually
does their experiments and starts learning how to get it done, one
will find that computers and automation just can't cope with the
entire situation very well at all.

Again, congratulations to you and your entire team of dedicated
people!

Chuck




---- Original Message ----
From: dali...@farny.cz
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Manufacturing affordable large, new
nixie tubes
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:16:33 -0700 (PDT)

Hello!

I am sending few notes to this topic, from a perspective of someone
who
spent last 5 years exclusively in nixie tubes manufacture ;-)

IMHO, $25 nixie tube is not possible. Nixie tubes were never so
cheap, even
in 60s, the less expensive tube from Burroughs was for $8 (equal to
today's
$64) when bought in a quantity of 1000pcs, type B-5016, no mercury.
Large
tube (B-7094) were for $30 (today's $240). In this time, the nixie
tubes
were cutting edge technology with generous budget, hoard of R&D
engineers
and whole tube backing industry. They were produced in large
quantities for
lot of equipment, mostly measuring devices - almost never for
digital
clocks, they were simply expensive for consumer market.
You can now find small tubes on eBay for around $5, mostly russian
tubes -
their price is now determined by market (what are hobbyists willing
to pay
for it), not manufacturing costs. They were produced in large
volumes in
soviet central planned economy, even when the demand was decreasing
- this
is why there are still full stocks of them in former soviet
countries.
You mention "current manufacturing methods", we actually dont have
much new
technologies which could simplify the nixie tube manufacture. The
use of
computers is very limited and doesnt help much. Also new
technologies like
laser cutting etc. doesnt help (only for machinery construction,
jigs..).
There are tens of operations involved in the
assembly/sealing/pumping
procedures - the quantity of machines needed for automated line
would be
big and their price very high. As NeonJohn suggested - few $M would
be
necessary just for the machinery. You would also soon find that
automation
make demands on supplier's tolerances ( e.g. glass thickness,
diameter)
which is beyond their standard production capabilities = back to
hand
processing.. This is one of the reason why large factories like
Blackburn
had own facilities for production of all the raw materials/prefabs.
Last year, I had a meeting with people from german company producing
glassworking machines - simple semiautomated machine just for
sealing
operation (stem/envelope) which still needs operator starts at
$250.000 and
its production capacity is not so high (my estimation was 30
tubes/hour).
And this is one of very few pieces of equipment you can purchase,
the rest
is necessary to develop - according to your specifications and
process
description.

But even if you had a fully equiped factory now, it would take you
long
time to get to working nixie tubes. It is not about machines, but
about the
operator/R&D - you need to know when the tube is sufficiently
degassed
before filling, what purity of the raw material is necessary, purity
of the
gases, time for aging etc.. Many factors, each of them can make your
tube
prone to failure. Not immediately, but after year of operation for
instance
- your backers will not wait years until you come up with working
combination..

Some data from our business:
- Our price for a tube is now set to $145.
- We make around 130 tubes per month (+ handful of clocks) with
monthly
revenue of around 20.000 USD.
- We are now a team of 5 people and this production volume makes us
really
busy (I work 7 days a week, all day long).
- We need 250 square meters (2700sqft) of space for our current
equipment.
- As for the "butique price" - my monthly net salary is $384, I get
paid
since February 2017 ;-) But my people's salary is above average (for
a
given profession and our region).
- I invested around $80.000 from my personal savings on the
beginning
I know that if I want to really succeed and earn money, I need to
cut down
the production costs. So I am step by step making our manufacture
efficient
with the intention to make our nixie tubes less expensive one day. I
am
investing our profit back to tooling/equipment, I am for example
working on
a high vacuum rotary manifold for carousel pumping machine with
higher
production capacity. I recently reverse-engineered Philips vacuum
locking
mechanism (tube clamping) for the same machine. But I am not sure if
it is
possible to make nixie tubes for below $60-80 even with high level
of
automation.

I hope it doesnt sound too discouraging ;-) just my $0.02

best regards,

Dalibor Farny


On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 11:52:06 UTC+2, Aiden Koh wrote:
I'm a product engineer taking on a new project.
With current manufacturing methods, I'm able to manufacture
In-18/Z568M
inspired nixie tubes, at a fraction of their market costs (sub 25
USD/pc).
I don't compromise on quality. hence, it will be built with parts
mostly
sourced from the US, and have the quality management system
ISO-certified.
However, due to overhead costs, such a price is only available if
the
minimum demand for said tubes is reached. Hence I can only
commence with
the project when I know that there is enough interest.

What are your thoughts? Would it interest you if such tubes exist?
show
your support, and large, affordable nixie tubes may finally be
within our
grasp!

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