If he wanted to fly a helicopter without training, I would stop him too. But he has respect for the HV supply which is the only real danger. He's aware of the need for anode resistors. He might burn out a few ICs by shorting some wires together but I don't see any real harm. One learns from one's mistakes. Likely he'd do that with TTL too.
Sure, an education in digital logic would be valuable, as would a lightweight introduction to nixies. But I don't see any reason why you can't learn on a microprocessor just as well. Thousands of people's first encounter of electronics has been with Arduinos and have found them a great start. The Pico is more complex but actually easier to use. You're not wrong, Leroy, but I think a course of action that interests and enthuses him is the most important part. Personally, I'm quite impressed by his efforts. There are problems, sure, but he's come asking for help knowing that he doesn't know enough. What's the harm in encouraging him ? On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 11:41 PM Leroy Jones <[email protected]> wrote: > David Pye, > > That is an oversimplification. Operating nixie tubes comes with a whole > universe of unique considerations. > Knowing how to program a micro cannot, and will not prepare a newcomer > properly for building a nixie tube clock. > > I am done here. Not going to waste my valuable time screaming at a > brick wall. The new guy either learns or he does not. > > That is up to him now. I have laid down a few of the basics for him. > (Hint: A PCB should not be made until the circuit has been tested and > proven out.).................PCBs are for mass production. One off > experiment is much better and faster on a solderless white board. > Much easier to change and to learn from. > > But I am sure someone will want to get the last word in and certainly not > allow any talk of discrete logic circuits to go unchallenged. > > On Monday, September 22, 2025 at 6:11:12 PM UTC-4 David Pye wrote: > >> My point remains. If you already know to program MCUs already, there's no >> need to go down the route of 74 series counters to build a clock, unless >> you want to. You can fuse that knowledge with the fundamentals of driving >> nixies. >> >> I certainly didn't build a clock based on because I already knew how to >> use microcontrollers. >> >> Following your logic to it's endpoint, you'd be telling him to learn how >> to build a clockwork grandfather clock before daring to build a digital >> clock. >> >> David >> >> On Mon, 22 Sept 2025, 22:55 Leroy Jones, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Adrian, I am so glad that you brought up the complexities of digital >>> design. Decoupling caps. Hefty grounds. >>> These things should not ever be overlooked in ANY well designed >>> circuit. I am not ready to give this young man the go-ahead >>> for the processor operated clock until he builds at least a few from >>> discrete logic first! Of course it is up to him how he wishes to spend >>> his time. >>> >>> How many of you guys on here have designed and built nixie clocks that >>> run on discrete logic and function properly for 25+ years without any >>> trouble? >>> Because I have done so. Many different versions. I speak from >>> experience. But maybe that is of no value now. We just grab a raspberry >>> pi and act cool >>> about it and hope it works. >>> >>> On Monday, September 22, 2025 at 5:46:00 PM UTC-4 Leroy Jones wrote: >>> >>>> David Pye: You are missing the point of what I am trying to convey >>>> here. My point is that trying to design and build a microproceeor >>>> controlled nixie tube >>>> clock from scratch is an ambitious project even for experienced >>>> people. Ambitious for an experienced man. Impossible for a beginner. >>>> That is my point. >>>> It is about the same as someone who has never flown an airplane nor >>>> been involved with aviation in any way, suddenly thinks they can design and >>>> build a working >>>> helicopter from scratch and have it work flawlessly the first time >>>> without having any prior experience of any kind. >>>> >>>> The only way to do it is to learn each small thing in small steps. >>>> Building a working nixie clock from scratch is a massive undertaking. No >>>> way around that. >>>> >>>> I am attempting to give guidance to this young man so that he might >>>> learn. >>>> >>>> Got to crawl before walking. Got to walk before running. Folks >>>> today seem to want everything to have a processor in it. >>>> And made on a PCB. Lots of luck with that as a first-off effort! >>>> >>>> Get a solderless breadboard. Get some #24 gauge solid tinned jumper >>>> wires. Get a nixie tube. Get a 170 volt DC power supply. >>>> Get a 5 volt DC power supply. Connect both supplies so they share a >>>> common ground. Use a 15k anode resistor for the nixie tube. >>>> Get a 74141 nixie driver IC. Get a 74LS160 decade counter. Learn >>>> how to operate the counter using a 555 timer IC running in astable mode. >>>> Connect the counter to the nixie driver IC. Turn it on and watch it >>>> count. For detailed explanation and study, get these two books: >>>> 1) The TTL Cookbook by Don Lancaster. >>>> 2) The CMOS Cookbook by Don Lancaster. >>>> >>>> How the hell can anyone expect a newbie to understand what the >>>> processor is actually accomplishing without having him >>>> first deal personally with each binary bit? >>>> >>>> Or are we now in such an age where fundamental understanding has been >>>> relegated to the dustbin, because it is "Too Hard, and Too Much Work" ? >>>> >>>> Flatten out the learning curve? Nope sorry. Not buying it. >>>> ("flatten the curve".......hmmm......where have we heard THIS before?) >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, September 22, 2025 at 5:08:27 PM UTC-4 David Pye wrote: >>>> >>>>> While I agree with some of this, I don't necessarily agree entirely. >>>>> >>>>> There are lots of things about the PCB that could be improved (eg >>>>> using ground planes/fills) and simple starting experiments - eg a trial >>>>> single-digit-nixie is a good place to start, to work out where the gaps in >>>>> your understanding are, and you can then incorporate what you learn into >>>>> the clock. >>>>> >>>>> What I don't necessarily agree with is starting by a clock using >>>>> discrete ICs and not a microcontroller. *IF* you come from the >>>>> generation >>>>> where arduino/rPi Pico are more familiar to you than large numbers of >>>>> chained 74-series ICs (like me), then you might well find it easier to use >>>>> an MCU to drive your clock. If you're 'old school' and MCUs are also new >>>>> to you, then sticking to that should flatten out the learning curve a bit. >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, 22 Sept 2025 at 20:38, Leroy Jones <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> For a 21 year old guy with no previous electronics experience, in my >>>>>> humble opinion, you are jumping in far far deeper >>>>>> than your present skill level is capable of producing any meaningful >>>>>> results. >>>>>> >>>>>> First of all, you have NEVER even fired up a nixie tube yet. Nor >>>>>> have you studied and worked with logic gates. >>>>>> If you want success, the first thing to do is get a nixie tube and a >>>>>> 170 volt DC power supply and a 15k anode resistor, then start >>>>>> experimenting lighting the tube digits. Next, get a 74141 or a >>>>>> 7441 nixie driver IC, and connect it up to an appropriate 4-bit switch of >>>>>> come sort >>>>>> so that you can feed it binary bits at the 5 volt level, and light >>>>>> the tube digits. Next thing then is to switch those bits using a >>>>>> counter >>>>>> such as 74LS160. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for a nixie clock, I would strongly suggest making one that uses >>>>>> no processor of any sort. Use TTL or CMOS logic to run counters that >>>>>> drive >>>>>> the 74141 nixie driver ICs. A very nice nixie clock can be made >>>>>> using about 16 to 20 ICs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Learning electronics and learning to use digital ICs and nixie tubes >>>>>> requires many, many practical tests and experiments. >>>>>> Jumping right in cold, with no prior experience right away thinking >>>>>> that a complex PCB can be designed and a clock made to operate >>>>>> without doing any experiments to prove the fundamental concepts is >>>>>> THE classic recipe for failure. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can help with book recommendations, parts lists to experiment with, >>>>>> and experiments to do. >>>>>> Take it slow. Stay down at the level of reality. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Chuck >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, September 22, 2025 at 3:02:23 PM UTC-4 Adrian Godwin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, put 100n capacitors between supply (5v or 3v3) and gnd near >>>>>>> each and every IC. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 8:00 PM Adrian Godwin <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the pdf. Yes, the schematic wasn't usable. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The first problem I've found is that SCLK and SDATA are connected >>>>>>>> to 3v3 and then have resistors in line. I'm pretty sure you had the >>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>> idea but made an error on the wiring, but if it's not obvious the >>>>>>>> resistors >>>>>>>> should be between 3v3 and the clk/data lines. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You will likely need a pullup resistor on the light sensor., unless >>>>>>>> the Pi has one internally that can be enabled on analog inputs. They >>>>>>>> normally just measure voltages and you want to measure resistance. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Overall, it's pretty good for a first try ! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 7:48 PM Mac Doktor <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 22, 2025, at 2:43 PM, Florian van der Dussen < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Current schematic: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The schematic is too small to read. Please share a larger copy. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH >>>>>>>>> "The Mac Doctor" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.astarcloseup.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes."—Roy Batty, >>>>>>>>> *Blade >>>>>>>>> Runner* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/33D10011-0F75-49D6-81B7-8049459EDE45%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/33D10011-0F75-49D6-81B7-8049459EDE45%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/022b559a-12fd-4b3c-ac21-73224c815c0dn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/022b559a-12fd-4b3c-ac21-73224c815c0dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/f9f50dd1-abf1-4eed-810a-95a7f50db3d1n%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/f9f50dd1-abf1-4eed-810a-95a7f50db3d1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "neonixie-l" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7a1ae0a3-ecf3-4b3c-802a-137cee4dc38dn%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7a1ae0a3-ecf3-4b3c-802a-137cee4dc38dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. 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