I'm lost here; if I said that, it was an error. Empyre is 'about' culture
and many other things; it's topic oriented with guest moderators and
participants.

- Alan

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 11:44 AM Ana Valdés <[email protected]> wrote:

> I was a bit puzzled when Alan wrote that -empyre a list where many of us
> belong and has participated for more than ten years is about politics. Did
> I misread you Alan? That’s the difficulties inherent to have English as
> third language :) I feel I sometimes misses nuances and shades.
> Because for me, a former political prisoner, everything is political, the
> way Furtherfield was created their work to put street art and digital
> creation in the first place, etc. This list is for me a political list as
> -empyre. They are managed differently but for me it’s a formal difference
> not a crucial one.
> I should love Netbehaviour to renew itself from bottom up and find in our
> own practice and work the tools for a change. But not a cosmetic change but
> a change in a deep sense.
> If not we risk to do what Burt Lancaster said in il Gatopardo, Lampedusas
> great novel and a great movie:
> “ We must change something to keep the things as they are”.
>
> Cheers
> Ana
>
>
>
> On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 at 06:25, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ruth,
>>
>> I think you misunderstand, or I do. For me it is a Commons, absolutely,
>> precisely because it's not steered by anyone. Steering is restrictive; it
>> becomes something else, you're asserting power, of course, as list owners.
>> It's been running fine for everyone I've talked to. I think when you say
>> "feel the shape of the community" that also implies perhaps that you want a
>> different sort of commons, where you alter that shape.
>>
>> None of us want to let it go and as far as I can tell, none of us have
>> felt we couldn't post or threatened or that we needed guidance or anything
>> else. There are lists that have tried that - Poetics, which ultimately
>> collapsed; the old Fiction of Philosophy list which I ran and tried to
>> structure, and so forth. I can find that sort of thing even on Facebook.
>>
>> Clearly we have different ideas of the Commons; mine is similar to
>> occupy, comes from bottom up; yours is top down. I never meant to imply by
>> the way that you should steer the list, just the opposite.
>> It has to do with power, and clearly you and Marc have that and are
>> dissatisfied with what others find valuable and enjoy, a community from the
>> bottom up, and one that's pretty self-regulating.
>>
>> If you let it go, there's no ceremony, it's a disaster based on your
>> decisions, not the members of the list. If it's that you're tired of
>> running it, because of technical issues, I'm sure a small group of us could
>> take that over; it's not difficult.
>>
>> Best, Alan, getting increasingly despondent over all of this. And now I
>> have a close relative who has cancer, I might drop out. Argh.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 4:57 AM Ruth Catlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear All!
>>>
>>> Firstly, Alan I also love your posts -the pattern which I think of as an
>>> art ping, and the content (when I watch, listen, read it) is a portal into
>>> your art practise which I really enjoy and value.
>>>
>>> I also think that Alan has a point in saying that Marc and I should
>>> provide a steer as list owners. I have a few ideas that I will share at the
>>> weekend (it's a hardcore project week this week for me).
>>>
>>> But in the meantime keeping the conversation open is allowing us to see
>>> and feel the shape of the community. It has been so useful to hear from
>>> Gretta, Patrick, Paul, Ana, Annie, Johannes, Erik and all. More please! We
>>> also appreciate various offers from people to contribute financially to the
>>> lists upkeep.
>>>
>>> We regard the value in this list as the strange undefined collective
>>> property of everyone who has ever contributed. But as it is currently set
>>> up, it is not a Commons. I personally, would like it if it were.
>>> We can also consider Annie's suggestion of letting it go. But if that's
>>> the way it goes (and this is not what I want) it should certainly not be
>>> done casually, rather with the ceremony befitting the splendour of all that
>>> has ever occurred here ; )
>>>
>>> I do want to reassure you Alan, we will make no sudden moves! The whole
>>> point of discussing this now is that it is not an emergency. We just need
>>> to work out who "we" are and what "we" want.
>>>
>>> Warmly
>>> Ruth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 11:48 PM Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I think we need some guidance; both Ruth and Marc seem unhappy with
>>>> Netbehaviour as it is.
>>>> I'm not sure myself whether to post or not.
>>>> Certainly calls could be put out to all the subscribers to indicate
>>>> whether they want to continue as such or not.
>>>> It's all about "as such or not" I think. Technically, Marc and Ruth are
>>>> list-owners, I believe. Ultimately they're responsible for the direction of
>>>> the list in the sense that any of us could be unsubscribed at the very
>>>> least.
>>>> There are times I've had to unsub people and that's always painful, as
>>>> would be, at least for us, shutting the list down.
>>>> I have no idea what to do. I find the situation hugely depressing.
>>>> Netbehaviour may be derailing, certainly as a commons. And the longer this
>>>> discussion is drawn out, the worse
>>>> things will get, at least that's been my experience.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile I keep writing/performing/worlding, whatever I do.
>>>>
>>>> Best, whatever that is,
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 5:57 PM Johannes Birringer <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello all. shapeshifters!
>>>>>
>>>>> just watched Alan's video and also realized it may be the last one, as
>>>>> he may not be posting his poetic writing and music here, anymore....
>>>>> so I watch it as the last one Alan! thank you....
>>>>>
>>>>> The conversations about how we might shift this "net- behavior" and
>>>>> become more attuned again to what Ruth and Marc may have imagined -
>>>>> "a place for free and open artistic experimentation with networked
>>>>> media, and community building"  is very intriguing. I just reread the many
>>>>> postings here, and am stimulated and confused, loving all the responses,
>>>>> disagreeing with some......as it should be. I try to be short;  Ruth's
>>>>> parables of the forest (and our poor presence as merely "ethnographic
>>>>> peculiarities") inspired me:  >a campfire in some unmanaged ancient
>>>>> woodland...>>......>>The woods around the campfire are full of watchers 
>>>>> and
>>>>> listeners (who knows who??)<<
>>>>>
>>>>> ...the analogies resonated with me, especially over the last 14 months
>>>>> in a pandemic that made me leave academia and spend more time in the
>>>>> forest, recording, performing, linking up, in the valley, with my village
>>>>> community, inventing new rituals, listening to others and what they 
>>>>> thought
>>>>> the "latende Allmende" (latent commons, as Anna Tsing calls it in her book
>>>>> on mushrooms and living in the ruins of capitalism) might be like. No one
>>>>> knew exactly, but we talked, and took our masks off.... and walked along
>>>>> the river [see pic]
>>>>>
>>>>> Well.. what is our "latende Allmende" going to be, with other
>>>>> (younger) participants? do we know the age and gender of the members who
>>>>> post here? i don't, and it never mattered, nor the the number of
>>>>> subscribers ("we don't really know much about us") ? 643,  1625?  59?
>>>>> is that true?
>>>>>
>>>>> well, if the commons are evoked, and Furherfield's new director, and
>>>>> new policies or strategic aims (inclusivity, intersectionality, link to
>>>>> local neighborhood) are mentioned in the organization's remit, now what
>>>>> exactly do you want us to do, in our shapeshifting? Have we not actually
>>>>> been engaged....learning/contributing "about what it means to aim for a
>>>>> commons of diverse cultures in connected physical to digital realms. It
>>>>> requires careful planning, partnership building and a lot of production
>>>>> work"......
>>>>>
>>>>> yes, it does. and we do.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> with warm regards
>>>>> Johannes Birringer
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ruth Catlow
>>> she/her
>>> Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised
>>> Arts Lab
>>> +44 (0) 77370 02879
>>>
>>> *I will only agree to speak at events that are racially and gender
>>> balanced.
>>>
>>> **sending thanks
>>> <https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-newsroom/press-releases/2019/november/think-before-you-thank-if-every-brit-sent-one-less-thank-you-email-a-day-we-would-save-16433-tonnes-of-carbon-a-year-the-same-as-81152-flights-to-madrid.html>
>>>  in
>>> advance
>>>
>>> *Furtherfield *disrupts and democratises art and technology through 
>>> exhibitions,
>>> labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free thinking.
>>> furtherfield.org <http://www.furtherfield.org/>
>>>
>>> *DECAL* Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0
>>> technologies research hub
>>>
>>> for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now.
>>>
>>> decal.is <http://www.decal.is>
>>>
>>> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company Limited by Guarantee
>>>
>>> Registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
>>>
>>> Registered business address: Carbon Accountancy, 80-83 Long Lane,
>>> London, EC1A 9ET
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/80-83+Long+Lane,+London,+EC1A+9ET?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> *=====================================================*
>>
>> *directory http://www.alansondheim.org <http://www.alansondheim.org> tel
>> 718-813-3285**email sondheim ut panix.com <http://panix.com>, sondheim
>> ut gmail.com <http://gmail.com>*
>> *=====================================================*
>> _______________________________________________
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>
> --
> https://anavaldes.wordpress.com/
> www.twitter.com/caravia158
> http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
> http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia
> http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/>
>
> cell Sweden +4670-3213370
> cell Uruguay +598-99470758
>
>
> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
> your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
> long to return.
> — Leonardo da Vinci
>


-- 
*=====================================================*

*directory http://www.alansondheim.org <http://www.alansondheim.org> tel
718-813-3285**email sondheim ut panix.com <http://panix.com>, sondheim ut
gmail.com <http://gmail.com>*
*=====================================================*
_______________________________________________
NetBehaviour mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

Reply via email to