Is it my memory going bad or wasn't Network Engineer a few years back in some state not allowed as a title as the state in question did not have a test to "Certify" someone with that knowledge? Don't ask me the state but I think it was in the south west some place. I could be wrong I am getting old and forgetful.
Jon On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 10:56 PM, John Hornbuckle < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We certainly fall into the "professionals" category; it takes no fewer > years to become a good technician as it does to become a good lawyer or > accountant. I'm afraid that many of us put in white-collar hours for > blue-collar pay, though. > > > > We've done informal surveys here asking what we all make. Perhaps just as > interesting would be a survey asking what our BOSSES make. > > > > Part of the problem is a lack of official accreditation. Lawyers and > accountants have to take certain actions in order to call themselves lawyers > and accounts. But anyone can call themselves an IT guy. Sure, we have > specialized certifications (Microsoft's, CompTIA's, etc.), but nothing at a > higher level. Perhaps a more formalized definition of "Systems Engineer" > ought to be codified. Maybe the issue is that this field is still in its > infancy, and somewhere down the road things will change. I know there have > been movements towards this in the past, but they don't seem to have picked > up any steam. > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Durf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > *Sent:* Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:48 PM > *To:* NT System Admin Issues > *Subject:* Re: So, Why Do We Do It? > > > > Jon, you raise a lot of great points here. > > I have to ask, aside from WHY we do it, what do we think we are? > > Are we more like lawyers or accountants - or more like electricians or > plumbers? Are we white-collar professionals, or blue-collar hourly workers? > > > If we are more like lawers, then what? I have a lawyer friend who > regularly works 100+ hour weeks. She also collected a $250,000 bonus last > year, on top of her $100,00 regular salary. > > By saing that "We're just geeks, and that's why we do it," aren't we kind > of opening ourselves up for abuse by the employers who are aware of that and > more than eager to exploit it? I'm sure a lot of lawyers are "law geeks" > too, but they sure as heck seem to find ways to get compensated for their > time. > > -- Durf > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 10:37 PM, Jon Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What you say seems to ring true. I came over to being a computer person > because I got tired of having my hands tied about fixing things I saw were > wrong. When you start as a regulator of a highly regulated industry and see > people lying to stop things that should not have been stopped and you can > now look back and say very loudly "I told you so" and they were kind enough > to actually document my telling them so at the time and for the reasons that > are now apparent it feels kind of good but you also feel sad to know that > you could not make yourself understood at the time. At the time I thought > nothing of 80 to 120 hour weeks for months on end. That is until I got > called into my boss's boss office and told I was taking 3 weeks off starting > as soon as I could that day. They loved the work till it is done attitude > but the State hated it on a whole as a lot of the workers could not build up > any time off and I had at that point something like 12+ weeks of just Comp > time not counting vacation days or sick time. > > > > Jon > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Kurt Buff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We're geeks. > > That carries a lot of freight, but let's start with a few things I've > noticed: > > 1) geeks tend to like to concentrate on problem solving, and work > through problems to their own satisfaction, though not necessarily to > completion. > > 2) geeks tend to devalue personal interaction on the job - they're > more about getting the work done, rather than the office politics - > this is related to the above, but not the same. > > 3) geeks tend to be more honest than most - a controversial point, I > know, but I believe it to be true. This means they don't like to let > others down, and will work to get things going longer than others. > > 4) geeks like to be seen as heroes - uber-competent, and able to save > the day, when nobody else can. > > 5) geeks tend to underestimate how long any task will take, because > the field of network/systems administration is still in its infancy, > and metrics are very hard to come by - leave aside the fact that we're > doing some of the most complex work in the work force. > > It's not that non-geeks don't have these traits, but that I've noticed > a confluence of these traits in geeks, which seems to compel them to > work the extra hours. I've oversimplified a lot of this, but it's a > start... > > Kurt > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 11:05 AM, John Hornbuckle > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I was recently talking to a technician who works for a company we > sometimes > > hire for projects. He's salaried, but working just 40 hours in a week is > > pretty rare for him. Looking at the poll in another thread and how many > of > > us are basically on call 24x7x365 for no additional compensation, I have > to > > ask… Why? Why, as a profession, do we allow ourselves to be treated this > > way? > > > > > > > > Is it that the pay is just so good that it's worth it? I know a few folks > on > > this list have indicated that they get compensated pretty well, but my > sense > > is that most of us just earn average pay and aren't living the high life. > > I'm not really sure why. We have skills that are in high demand, and take > > years to develop. Why are we selling ourselves short? > > > > > > > > Personally, my pay is just so-so. For the area I live in (poor, rural, > and > > with a low cost of living) it's decent, and I do work in the public > sector > > rather than private—that's always going to hit you win the wallet. But I > > generally get to make up the extra time with time off, a long lunch, > maybe > > going in late or going home early. Plus I get vacation and sick leave > that's > > pretty generous by American standards, and participation in the state > > retirement system. So all in all, I can't complain much. > > > > > > > > But I know a lot of people who work in the private sector for pay that's > > only so-so, and regularly work 60-hour weeks. > > > > > > > > Why? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John Hornbuckle > > > > MIS Department > > > > Taylor County School District > > > > www.taylor.k12.fl.us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -------------- > Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. > Give a fish a man, and he'll eat for weeks! > > > > > > > > > > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~
