>>In short, being senior is not just about being great, it's
about achieving the quality on time and in budget. If you
>>can do that then you may be worth your expectations.
I couldn't agree more. It's years of experience that enables people
to delivery within the context of a show and problem solve with the
right priorities in mind, not just the skill to make something look
amazing (regardless of the time and resources it may require). This
sort of experience should enable you to keep your value as an artist
up. while you may be way more expensive than a junior, you will need
way less time to deliver what's required, so the bottom line for the
employer is not an increases payroll, but a more efficient delivery
schedule.
I have had juniors on my team who, despite not being able to do the
tricky comps, turned out to be more effective in the grand scheme
than some of the seniors.
The right combo of experienced seniors/leads and juniors can be
quite amazing in terms of efficiency and quality.
Unfortunately, companies often do not value experience because it
seems expensive on paper, when all they do is compare the
hourly/daily rate for juniors and seniors; particularly when those
companies are managed by accountant type people that don't
understand or want to understand the actual work the company is
doing.
On 16/03/14 13:20, Howard Jones wrote:
Taking this from a different angle.
Not every show is uber VFX. Some shows cannot afford that
level or even require that level. They still need VFX. Does that
mean they can't afford senior compositors?
No, if anything it means they cant afford not to hire
seniors.
Why? Because if budgets are tight, you need to hit the ground
running.
So hypothetically thinking... I need to hire a senior, not
because the work is uber-hard or requires uberVFX. It doesn't
(always). It's hard enough, requires consummate keying skills/
problem solving but it's not cutting edge. Too hard for a
genuine mid range artist, requires a senior.
Now here's the problem. Finding a senior who can tailor their
VFX to suit the budget. I dont want cheap crap, I don't need
uberVFX, I need good enough and fast.
Often I find a lot of time is wasted getting the seniors to
work down to the show's expectations and budget. In short too
much pixel fucking.
However at the end of the day I would still want a senior and
pay what is affordable. Just a good senior on a simpler show
should be faster, less demanding, than a junior/mid. (If only)
I guess there are a range of shops you can go to to fill up
your trolley, but if you pay a bit more you expect a better
quality. Whether quality translates to good enough and fast or
perfect and considered, depends on show budget. However good
enough and slow at a premium rate is just a waste.
In short, being senior is not just about being great, it's
about achieving the quality on time and in budget. If you can do
that then you may be worth your expectations.
Howard
Absofrigin-lutley!
Very interesting thread, and considering the shear skill
set needed and uber high level of expertise required for
great vfx creation, the right price can always be negotiated
confidently and reasonably.
Neil Scholes
Sent from my iPad
well said frank.
you have put into word in an elegant way what I try
and explain to people all of the time, its a slow road
but the more artists that think this way the easier it
will become.
cheers
-adam
Either way,
most qualified people I know tend to be under
paid, and based on my experience, companies will
always try to take the piss as the people that
negotiate with you often don't have a clue where
your skill set fits into their copmany, and what
you actually bring to the table - and most don't
want to know either.
To quote somebody from a local python mailing
list:
"The criteria used for hiring often don't
match the culture in the workplace. "
This can easily be transferred to rates and
quality of work, i.e. "the rates offered to the
artists often don't match the expected
performance"
I have had requests from some of the big
facilities basically asking me if I know a junior
that could do what I do. Of course they used
different words and tried to make me feel honoured
that they would ask me for my opinion. My reply
was "you get what you pay for" - never heard
anything again from them.
Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that we
all need to be a bit more accountable as to the
rate we aim for. Aim too low, and you may get the
job today, but you will become part of the
problem, and the ongoing commoditisation of top
vfx experience, and your work will not be valued.
One argument I have learned to never accept from
the big facilities when they try to hire you for
another million dollar blockbuster is "it's not in
our budget". that is the lamest excuse. It's like
going to the shops, filling up your trolly and
telling the check out girl that the total price is
not in your budget - and expect a friendly "oh,
well , that's fine then - have a good day".
One of the most challenging parts of my career has
been to figure out for myself what I really think
my work is worth, rather than what I think I can
get away with. It's been 18 years and am still
struggling with that :-D
frank
On 3/15/14, 12:55 AM,
Steve Newbold wrote:
That's kind of my
point. You'll find plenty of 'seniors' on
less than 45K in small facilities in London,
and yup you hit the nail on the head, people
who stay in one company for a long time, get
their 1-2% pay rise every year (when not in
the perpetual pay freeze) and have zero
concept oh how they stack up with other
artists at other facilities. It's not like it
used to be. It's a double edged sword where
its very hard to progress unless you stick
around for a bit, so you either move around,
follow the money and do the shots, or stay put
and try and work your way up.
But anyway... Nuke eh? ;)
On 14/03/14 11:45, Gustaf Nilsson wrote:
If you are a senior on 170 a
day then you must either be the worst
negotiator on the planet or have stayed at
the same company for too long.
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