Title: RE: [Open_Gaming] Re: [ogf-d20-l] Unorthodox D20 modules
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Romkey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 12:22 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Open_Gaming] Re: [ogf-d20-l] Unorthodox D20 modules

 

Hmmmm,

Women who are adamantly against D&D. Here's the problem as I see it: The concept of what a 'Gamer' is. Let's face it, those of us who are here consider ourselves 'Gamers'. We are people for whom this is generally a way of life. some more than others. I myself can handle a game every other week comfortably. I have friends back home that go 5 games a week, every week plus boffer events during the summer. These friends are both men and women. They are 'Gamers'.

 

I think it is ridiculous to consider those that spend inordinate amount of time playing these games as your "core" group. In fact I would venture that those that impact the industry the most are much more balanced than the "gamers" you describe above.  Gaming is a hobby. Some people become very involved in their hobby (for the record gaming every night...or pursuing any hobby everyday is WAY over the top) but by in large a hobby is just that something we devote a fair but reasonable amount of time.

The focus of any company should and must be on the majority of their target audience.(which is not the "5 nights" a week variety.) 

Actually, I was just using this to illustrate the range of experience and intensity of the hobby. Myself at the low range and these particular friends at the high range. Besides, it would stand to reason that the more often one plays the more they are likely to buy. ex. "Our monday and Wednsday games are both D&D.. can we break it up and maybe play star wars on Tuesday?"

What you have proposed is to create a game that will draw non-gamer women into being gamers. Informal polls aside, one of the best ways to start is to look at what draws non-gamer men into being gamers. First of all, there is the type. A certain set of interests that inspires the gaming spirit. Sci-fi/Fantasy is a big one. Let's face it, not all men and not all women share these interests. I had roommates in college to whom the very idea was anethma, among other things it would have cut into the drinking time. Some women are the same way.

Agreed. Those that show an increased interest in Sci-Fi/Fantasy genre tend to be more "open" to the concept of gaming. Interesting observation that those that don't game were (according to you) spending their time drinking. Not a really fair observation which smacks of an unconstructive stereotype. 

I said among other things. For my particular roommates that was true. My friends from back home would use that time for movies more often than not. Contrary to what you think, I'm not pushing stereotypes but rather pointing out specific examples from my own life.

Now you have a target audience. Young geeky guys. The majority of male gamers I know tended towards engineering/computer science. In a way, people who wanted a way to express their creative needs but couldn't really act. Now you want to find an analgous group of women. You don't want to be tapping Sororities (in general - there are some Engineering related sororities but I think those are the exception, not the rule). Anime fans are a good start. There are more and more girls moving into the engineering and computer science fields these days.

I am not sure that "engineering/computer science" is an accurate or helpful category. In my present gaming group it is pretty evenly split between "the arts" and " science" and not all the science group falls into the above category. (i.e. one is a biologist) 

Again, personal experience. I can think of one friend in particular who switched his major to theater after our LARP group brought out the actor in him. However, the majority that I personally know were of those two majors. It could well be simply a case that Umass has a very large CS/Engineering deptartment and so percentage chances favored it. 

One final note: I think that there are a lot more women gamers out there than you realize. In my experience the female of the species is less prone to 'Rules Lawyering', a Syndrome that often spings up in gamers who have read every single rulebook and know it backwards and forwards. You'll find that most guys say gaming is better with a woman. The reason for that is the difference between watching a movie in black and white vs. in color. The characters become less stats on paper and more detailed. Based on that, you can't judge the presence of women gamers based on how many books they buy.

Again a propensity to quote rules does not relate to buying power. All serious players (once they become serious) own rule books and buy supplements.(whether male or female) Your above statements (as well as others) dance around the issue and present essentially baseless and somewhat sexist stereotypes.  

I think it's pretty obvious that in order to quote rules, you have to have read them ;-) I do admit that this was a pretty lame corolation however. I am a bit offened at the hint that I am being sexist. In any discussion revolving around gender issues we dance that line however, everything that I have said is based off of personal gaming experience with women I have gamed with.

As for the issue, here it is spelled out: If you're looking to sell to the female demographic, you need to realize that it is not as simple as females. There are 3 types of women you will be dealing with. 1. Those who are already gamers. 2. Those who aren't gamers but might be. 3. Those who will never ever be gamers. As a company looking to target these markets you will want to know who the women who already game are and which types of games they like so that you can get them you buy your products. You will also want to find out Who the ones that might be are and figure out how to get them into the hobby.

 All of this is based off personal experience. Anyone with different experiences than me are free to dissagree.
-Bill

All the above highlights the problem with a discussion of this type. We all bring our various unsubstantiated views and these types of positions have driven the gaming industry over the past few years. The solution needs to be long term and thoughtful. 

I beleive you are seriously mistaken here. As someone who's only experience is a lifetime of playing games with various different friends, my views have been well substantiated by observations on playing style and purchusing habits of (counts) near 50 women gamers I have known in my short time on this planet. Well, I do agree with the long term and thoughtful statement ;-)

 a) Design well balanced supplements and corebooks. 

Hardly revolutionary here. But definitly something someone should state more often. Also, something I think that would (or at least should) apply equally towards drawing in both genders.

 b) Monitor sales and identify sales trends. 

Because everybody fills in those little surveys and mails them back.

c) Establish a wide playtest base. 

If for no other reason than to make sure that you get 'A' done.

 d) React to the established data and not to preconceived notions. 

Good idea. I don't want to see Barbi's Dungeon Adventure in my local gaming store.  

Not a quick fix for sure but it is Marketing 101 and generally produces level results. 

You'd think gaming companies would be doing that already wouldn't you? Or at least their marketing departments. Except of course if they were doing good enough business from their mostly male clientel (assumption here, I don't know the demographic stats) and the established data told them that their biggest clients were these men and so they kept producing games that men liked and didn't change for fear of alienating their established clientel.

Fortune favors the bold,

-Bill

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