>>From: "woodelf (lists)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>we're going after completely different results for almost the same >>reason: you think mechanics don't matter, so just pick one (D20) and >>use it. me, i think game mechanics don't matter, so there's no >>reason to just stick with one. i can already pick up a Feng Shui >>scenario and use it in my D&D3E game, or define my Mage: the >>Sorcerer's Crusade town in Aria terms, or drop a Call of Cthulhu >>baddie into my CORPS game, so there is nothing to be gained by more >>games using the same mechanics. > >I would disagree.. there is one HUGE factor that you aren't covering >on why to have games that use the same mechanics: Players. If a >game has a small or non-existant learning curve, due to the players >already knowing the core rules, it will see more use than a game >that people have to learn from scratch. I see this with my gaming >group. The group was able to pick up Talislanta and play it very >quickly, due to similarities with d20, while games who use entirely >different mechanics, such as MERP, Rolemaster, etc seem to slow the >group down to a crawl as they try to figure out how to do stuff, etc.
true, i did gloss over that. on the other hand, in my rather considerable experience, that's a point against D20, not in its favor. for two reasons. first, not many other RPGs share the assumptions of D20 (most others either abstract combat and wounds completely, or are much more detailed about them, and i can't think of a single other one that treats missile attacks as discrete actions while treating melee attacks as an abstraction; very few other games use levels for progression, and those that do often are much less rigid than D20; very few, if any, other RPGs have fire-and-forget spellcasters; etc.), so, IME, going from D20 to just about any other RPG will shorten the learning time of the other RPG almost unnoticably (and may actually lengthen it). second, IME, most RPGs already have a small-to-non-existent learning curve. i've gotten players up to speed (including knowing the system well enough to create a character well) on dozens of different RPGs in less than 30min each; i wouldn't try that with RMSS, Hero System, or a few others, but most are quite easy to learn. D&D3E is one of the few games i've run across for which that just isn't possible, IME. though, i'm beginning to think a larger percentage of the problem is the presentation than i had previously thought--learning 3E from the D20SRD seems to cut the learning curve in half or better, compared to using the D&D3EPH. >>>I am looking forward to a day when game rules can no longer be the >>>basis for pissing contests (and they really are on some of these >>>email lists and even at the gaming table) and it becomes obvious >>>that designers are focusing on getting to intimately know the people >>>who actually play the game. > >The problem with intimately knowing the people who play the game is >that you have to carve a niche at some point then. IronClaw is a >great example of this, and I mean that in a good regard. They >intimately know what their target wants. They are serving that >specific audience rather nicely. They will never see the level of >success that a more generic, d20 style game sees however because >they took the time to get to know their players. Generic worlds, >generic rules, such as d20 offers, are ideal for shotgunning to a >mass market. People know they can get the rules at most bookstores, >gaming stores, etc. Targetting products are not going to ever hit >anything close to that as you only have a few interested parties in >any one location. Pissing contest or not, if you want to appeal to >the largest audience possible, you make generic stuff that the >players can alter on their own. at the cost of quality, you seem to be arguing. i'm not sure that's the case, but i will agree that that's what i've seen so far--even the best-quality D20 products are merely good, IMHO, in the larger context of RPG products. frex, the Mongoose Slayers' Guides and Touched by the Gods (title?) from Atlas are the only products i've seen so far that i would use if i were playing a game utterly unlike D&D in setting, mechanics, genre, or style. while i have numerous products from other game lines that i bought specifically to not use with the intended game and/or genre. -- woodelf <*> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.home.net/woodelph/ If any religion is right, maybe they all have to be right. Maybe God doesn't care how you say your prayers, just as long as you say them. --Sinclair _______________________________________________ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
