The word "training" is problematic. If you mean "memorize an association list of pairs" (e.g. faces+text-string) well, technically that is "training" in the AI jargon file, but it's of little utility for AGI.
The word "pattern" is problematic. Exactly what a "pattern" is, is ... tricky. Much (most? almost all?) of my effort is about trying to define "what is a pattern, anyway". I'm not sure what you had in mind, when you used that word. (Its a tricky word. Everyone obviously knows what it means, but how to turn it into an algorithmically graspable "thing"?) --linas On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 6:44 PM Dave Xanatos <[email protected]> wrote: > "If you can't spot the pattern, you've not accomplished anything." > > > > Every significant – and truly useful - advance I've made on my own > language apprehension code has been based on recognizing a pattern, and > coding for it. I fully agree. > > > > Can a neural network be trained on patterns instead of things? > > > > Can code designed to recognize – for example, faces (like eigenfaces) – be > trained to instead recognize blocks of data that look the same, despite > perhaps being in vastly dissimilar fields? > > > > Apologies if I'm intruding, or seem to be "out of my lane"… a popular > buzzword these days. > > > > Dave – LONG time lurker… > > > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of > *Linas Vepstas > *Sent:* Saturday, July 18, 2020 6:54 PM > *To:* link-grammar <[email protected]>; opencog < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [opencog-dev] Re: [Link Grammar] Sutton's bitter lesson > > > > Well yes. What's truly remarkable is how frequently that lesson has to be > re-learned. There are vast swaths of the AI industry that still have not > learned it, and are deluding themselves into thinking that they've made > bold progress, when they've gotten nowhere at all, and seem blithely > unaware that they are repeating the same mistake... again. > > > > I refer, of course, to the deep-learning true-believers. They have made > the fundamental mistake of thinking that their various network designs > provide an adequate representation of reality. How little do they seem to > realize that all that code, running hand-tuned on some GPU is just, and I > quote Sutton, here: "leveraged human understanding of the special > structure of chess". Except, cross out "chess" and replace with > "dimensional reduction" or "weight vector" or whatever buzzword-bingo is > popular in the deep-learning field these days. > > > > I'm back again to insisting that "patterns matter". If you can't spot the > pattern, you've not accomplished anything. Neural nets can't spot patterns. > They're certainly interesting for various reasons, but, as an AGI > technology, they are every bit a dead-end as the hand-crafted English > link-grammar dictionary. > > > > This is one reason I'm sort of plinking away, working on unfashionable > things. I'm thinking simply that they are more generic. and more powerful. > But perhaps the problem is recursive: perhaps I'm just "leveraging my human > understanding of the special structure of patterns", and will hit a wall > someday. For now, it seems that my wall is more distant. If only I could > convince others ... > > > > --linas > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 5:14 PM Paul McQuesten <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Linas, > > > > I think this reinforces your view of learning from data, instead of adding > more human-curated rules: > > http://incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "link-grammar" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/link-grammar/464d1f92-00b7-4780-870a-2156229b4567o%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/link-grammar/464d1f92-00b7-4780-870a-2156229b4567o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > > -- > > Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer. > --Peter da Silva > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "opencog" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA36x8QBXGUg4f9BMw5StdhRu1WFjFr_9ySo_vZesMeZrTA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA36x8QBXGUg4f9BMw5StdhRu1WFjFr_9ySo_vZesMeZrTA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "opencog" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/002701d65d5d%244fdc07d0%24ef941770%24%40xanatos.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/002701d65d5d%244fdc07d0%24ef941770%24%40xanatos.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer. --Peter da Silva -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. 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