Hi Nil, I don't know, everybody suddenly lost interest (IIRC Linas was the only one interested), and I'm not in position to lead the visualization project on my own. Lastly, this thread mysteriously vanished from my google groups and my mail account a while ago. Now that it is back again, the visualization topic seems a bit strayed from this thread about Atomspace, so if anybody is interested in mentoring me toward a useful (still a open question) bit of visualization fragment of OpenCog, we can continue this conversation in the original thread (this thread is branched from the original "MOZI web UI" thread).
Thank you, Ivan V. uto, 21. ruj 2021. u 09:48 'Nil Geisweiller' via opencog < [email protected]> napisao je: > On 7/12/21 21:30, Ben Goertzel wrote: > > A reasonable step would be for Nil to send you some real PLN and URE > inference histories and see what your visualizer does with them... > > > Is that still needed? > > > Nil > > > > On Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 10:59 AM Ivan V. <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I made a small infinity test <http://ocog.atspace.cc/infinite/> too. >> Each parent virtually has an infinite number of children. Rolling ovals >> around, zooming ovals in, zooming ovals out, ... Surely it's not exactly >> perfect, but I could live with it. >> >> pon, 12. srp 2021. u 17:48 Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> >> napisao je: >> >>> Hi Ivan, >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 6:00 AM Ivan V. <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Thank you for asking, and my thoughts are pretty obvious. As I >>>> understand, URE and PLN are all about proofs, so my thoughts may go in that >>>> direction. Suppose we have a natural deduction proof composition: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> * --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- I J >>>> K L M N P Q R ----------------- >>>> ----------------- ----------------- A B >>>> C ----------------------------------------------------------- >>>> X* >>>> >>>> You can already see the tree-like composition, but as it may span over >>>> a very wide and tall area, it may be required to represent it within an >>>> on-demand scaling system. This example <http://ocog.atspace.cc/> >>>> roughly shows what I have imagined for proof representation. In the example >>>> you can play with ovals, dragging them around and in or out the central >>>> area, zooming proof parts of the current interest. Notice how it is >>>> possible to represent and navigate nearly infinite length proofs, assuming >>>> enough memory space. >>>> >>> >>> Re: navigating trees: if you don't already know this, then I suggest >>> that you really, really should study hyperbolic rotations aka mobius >>> transformations on the poincare disk. They implement your example. I >>> recall seeing a demo of this at SIGGRAPH two or three decades ago. As you >>> pan around on the hyperbolic disk, different parts of the graph get >>> magnified at the center. And, like an MC Escher print, the rest of the >>> graph remains compressed at the edges. >>> >>> For scale-free networks, this doesn't work. And from what I can tell, >>> learning really does result in something close to scale-free networks. >>> What this means in practice is that there's one vertex with a million edges >>> coming off of it. There are two, with half-a-million each. Four, with a >>> quarter-million each, and so on. So almost all vertexes have just a handful >>> of edges connected to them, but as you move around, from vertex to vertex, >>> you bump into these monsters. And you can't really draw them: try drawing a >>> vertex with a thousand edges on your 2Kx2K monitor: most of those edges >>> will be less than one pixel from each-other. It'll be just a big blob. >>> >>> It's important to "eat your own dog-food", as they say, or "smoke your >>> own dope": use your own code to solve actual, real-world problems. This >>> very quickly highlights where all that beautiful theory doesn't quite work >>> out in practice. >>> >>> --linas >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "opencog" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34HBqa02JkW9-EVR5OrpSkOWEMGjZBOCPM2vKKpJR2%2B0A%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34HBqa02JkW9-EVR5OrpSkOWEMGjZBOCPM2vKKpJR2%2B0A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "opencog" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAB5%3Dj6UgLR5xMP9WeE%2BWOkqBynGTr%2BNQTwsmUq9JrSuU1Sh1ZA%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAB5%3Dj6UgLR5xMP9WeE%2BWOkqBynGTr%2BNQTwsmUq9JrSuU1Sh1ZA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "opencog" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CACYTDBeOoqMRD20KFDYPGG1YfRqT0qW4wehOGtTKSqTb%3D6L2Jw%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CACYTDBeOoqMRD20KFDYPGG1YfRqT0qW4wehOGtTKSqTb%3D6L2Jw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "opencog" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/1571e542-776a-2aad-c15f-02aaf8ad1ca3%40gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/1571e542-776a-2aad-c15f-02aaf8ad1ca3%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. 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