Mister Blue, I would very much prefer a "new" renderer for avatars - if using the existing one means we are stuck with the SL avatar mesh/model. Something much more modular and modern that would work with more "standard". In fact, the renderer, I think, should be modular and pluggable and designed so when you visit a foreign grid/region/sim you automatically get a copy of the renderer required to display that grid if you don't already have it.
On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Frank Nichols <[email protected]> wrote: > Mister Blue, I would very much prefer a "new" renderer for avatars - if > using the existing one means we are stuck with the SL avatar mesh/model. > Something much more modular and modern that would work with more > "standard". In fact, the renderer, I think, should be modular and pluggable > and designed so when you visit a foreign grid/region/sim you automatically > get a copy of the renderer required to display that grid if you don't > already have it. > > > On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Mister Blue <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Good stuff. >> >> @Gunther: I have toyed with building an OpenSim module that adds an >> OpenSim region to the HiFi hierarchical object tree. Then I spent a week >> trying to build the HiFi viewer to conclude that they are creating a new >> integrated viewer in the same sort of form as the SL viewer. While I like a >> lot of their grid and object system, I'm not happy with the viewer. >> >> @Tochner: RealXtend contains a lot of good work and it is now wrapped >> into the Fi-Ware European project which will provide it funding and >> momentum. Like OpenSim, there are companies using RealXtend and, for >> smaller worlds, it works pretty well. >> >> You are right that starting from scratch would be a long road. But, since >> we are in the open-source world and many necessary parts are available to >> build on. >> >> I've been thinking along the lines of building a browser based renderer >> using asm.js for performance and borrowing rendering logic from HiFi (they >> seem to have people who know about rendering arch) and three.js (which has >> an efficient, generalized renderer) and Radegast. RealXtend has developed a >> flexible WebSockets transport system (protocol versioning and >> multi-channels, ...). Add to that a 'space management' system like >> Sirikata's or the hierarchical tree of HiFi but with a generalization for >> girds and different authentication systems. I like Macaroons for bearer >> certificates or passing around permissions. Avatar renderers would come >> from HiFi and Radegast although I wonder if avatar rendering could be cut >> out of the LL viewer as a separate LGPL'ed library. The interface to the >> backend would be cloud-ish -- all REST interfaces that can use all the >> scaling tech of modern web applications (notifications, CDNs, managed APIs, >> versioning, ...). >> >> An eventual research project would be the storage and manipulation of >> objects in spaces. I wonder if only 'digested' objects can be sent to >> viewers? 'Digested' in the sense that they have been combined, formatted, >> enhanced for viewing (added light maps or occlusion maps) or merged to >> build views of that city in the distance. If intermediate processors >> (between the client and the object stores) can make 'views' for the client, >> what would they do? What is the 'map/reduce' operation for 3d world >> objects? Now could procedural rendering fit into this? >> >> Anyway, that's a long way of saying that starting from scratch would be >> hard. Not only in the amount of work but also in building both new >> developer and user communities. As @Justin pointed out, I am being very >> optimistic on the amount of work involved. >> >> A first step would be a simple viewer that shows promise and connects to >> existing grids. A baby step. >> >> -- mb >> >> On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Frank Nichols <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> "make it in a way it can better support functionality for handicapt >>> people." >>> >>> Absolutely - this will go a long way towards gaining acceptance! >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 7:16 AM, R.Gunther <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Afree with this, i think its just a bit to early for a viewer. >>>> Its better if possible to adjust opensim to make it High Fidelity >>>> compatible. >>>> And als use there viewer, or write one thats based on high fidelity >>>> code. >>>> If you now write a viewer for opensim you possible have to many >>>> bandages needed later to adjust it for High Fidelity. >>>> High Fidelity can give a few parts that openmsim is now missing. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2014-08-07 09:05, Ilan Tochner wrote: >>>> >>>>> I highly recommend that we avoid trying to start a viewer project from >>>>> scratch. Doing so without a dedicated group working full time for an >>>>> extended period of time will result in the viewer project's failure and >>>>> the >>>>> growing irrelevance of the OpenSim project that will pend the availability >>>>> of this modern viewer. >>>>> >>>>> I suggest we either adopt and extend the realXtend project for our >>>>> needs (with or without its server architecture) or invest our collective >>>>> R&D resources towards pushing High Fidelity in the direction we want it to >>>>> evolve to. These liberally-licensed open source projects have already had >>>>> many developer-years worth of effort invested in them and are actively >>>>> developed by more people than are currently contributing to the OpenSim >>>>> codebase. It would be very unwise IMO to spend years reimplementing the >>>>> type of viewer they already have working. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Ilan Tochner >>>>> Co-Founder and CEO >>>>> Kitely Ltd. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> >
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