Abstraction is all good and well, adding layers gives us all those warm and fuzzy OO tingles, but when it comes to performance, one often has to break away that layering and sometimes enforce a tighter coupling.
Also, regarding the whole jexl/jxpath/ognl/python/javascript EL support thing, I still just don't see a gain. It's cool, it's fun, it makes one feel clever, but I still think the end result just doesn't buy you enough over plain vanilla ognl (which I'm told has 0 dependencies, incidentally) in webwork's case. Too much of the Jakarta syndrome of pluggability for pluggability's sake and the dream of mashing together APIs in weird and bizarre combinations.
Oh and of the examples given, I'm not exactly shy of how I feel about maven, heh. If anything, maven is a great example of why using the jelly clan is a bad idea. 'real world' to me does not quite match up to 10 jars pulled out of 10 cvs repositories at various dates. Horses for courses though, I'm sure there are many people out there who don't feel queasy at the prospect of all those cvs dependencies,and more power to them. Having been bitten by such a cavalier attitude before, I'm a bit more skeptical these days.
anteater, latka, jellyunit all seem to provide yet more (needless, IMHO) ways to run testcases. jellyswing admittedly does look pretty cool, but again, the coolness of it doesn't derive from jelly, but rather from the xml->swing mapping. It'd be equally cool if it used jaxp with ognl. So yeah,all fun projects, but none (to me, personally, of course) are particularly 'real world'.
James is a smart guy, that I do not doubt, far smarter than the average jakarta yahoo, dom4j is a testimony to that. Jelly just happens to be a solution that to my mind is a hammer in a world of bolts.
On Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 07:06 PM, Mike Cannon-Brookes wrote:
Another view option with our existing EL then :)
------ Forwarded Message
From: "James Strachan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 15:30:30 -0000
To: "Mike Cannon-Brookes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] Commons Jelly
FWIW, you could drop in OGNL (or indeed any expression language) into Jelly
pretty easily if you wish. Any TagLibrary can decide which expression
langauges it wishes to use & where so you could easily use Jelly + OGNL as a
view technology in WW if thats what you wanted to do.
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Cannon-Brookes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "James Strachan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 3:16 PM
Subject: FW: [OS-webwork] Commons Jelly
More Jelly opinions. -mike------ Forwarded Message From: Kelvin Tan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 19:46:15 +0800 To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] Commons Jelly My initial inkling was to have Jexl as a possible replacement to thecurrentEL, but looking deeper into OGNL convinces me that it doesn't match up in
terms
of functionality.
Something interesting, though, is Jelly's support for multiple expression
languages...
<quote>
Jelly has native support for a Velocity-like expression language called
Jexl<snip> as well as support for other pluggable expression languages likeYou could drop in OGNL (or indeed any expression language) pretty easily if
XPath
via Jaxen, JavaScript, beanshell and Jython.
</quote>
Use Jelly as a basis for multiple EL support? But I have a strange feeling
I'm
way over my head here..:-) Just ignore me, if that's the case.
you wish.
On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:07:49 -0800, Patrick Lightbody said:Can you give some deeper examples of how this might occur? I'm thinking it could just be a view technology, so maybe you can show me other examples where it is "more than a view". -Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelvin Tan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <opensymphony- [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:27 PM Subject: [OS-webwork] Commons JellyDid a search in the archives and didn't find anything noteworthy re: WW + Jelly, so thought I'd bring it up. Has this been discussed before? Perhaps not just using it as "anotherview",but in a more integrated fashion, ala OGNL and the current EL? After all,Jellyhas a large collection of existing taglibs, and support for JEXL... Regards, Kelvin -------- The book giving manifesto - http://how.to/sharethisbook ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorldhttp://www.vasoftware.com_______________________________________________ Opensymphony- webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork------------------------------------------------------- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com _______________________________________________ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork------------------------------------------------------- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com _______________________________________________ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork ------ End of Forwarded Message__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ------ End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com _______________________________________________ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
------------------------------------------------------- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com _______________________________________________ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
