Chiming in from up in Ottawa Ontario where we are on march break... pretty busy with kid activities!
There have been so many wonderful points on a wiiiiide range of topics in this discussion. I'm so appreciative and am learning lots. :) I've written a very mixed bag of thoughts below, sometimes riffing on what others have said (e.g., name buttons; second dance free passes). These are quick thoughts because of the tight times during march break so I hope I've been able to communicate these ideas all riiiiiight.... :) - *Name tags: *I personally love them whether they are buttons (could feel a bit exclusive to those without) or simply stickers available for people to write their names. Not a requirement but an option for people to connect names. - *ID for new folks: *In Ottawa prior to the pandemic, we were suggesting that anyone who felt relatively new grab one of the bright colour stickers (can't remember the colour... let's say fluorescent green) and that we'd look out for them on the dance floor, ask to dance etc.. Then those with more experience could quickly ID folks who self-identified as new AND the new folks who wanted to, could flag that they wanted more connection/support. These seemed to work really well! - *2nd dance free passes: *We've used them in Ottawa for a decade - we track how many go out and come back. Not sure how effective they are but we do get them back and it's something for everyone. I like Sandy's idea of handing them out during the beginner lesson... that's cool and I had never heard of that before! - *Timing of the dance: *I saw lots of mentions of dancers arriving late, missing the beginner lesson. A lot of those dances start at 7. I'm totally not sure about this but the Ottawa beginner lesson is at 730pm and dance is from 8-11pm with visiting at a local pub after. We tend to get a lot of people at the beginner lesson. I'm wondering if that extra 1/2hr might just be enough for folks to finish their dinner. - *Option to eat at hall ahead of time: * Related to the above on timing, I was juuuuust at the Quebec City contra dance this past weekend. They hold theirs Sunday afternoons and they publicly invite anyone who wants to bring their lunch to the hall ahead of time and eat it there. There were only a few people who did that but I really love the idea of packing an easy meal, eating it on one's lap, and visiting with folks. It gets some folks there earlier (maybe they'd help with set up?!), creates more visiting/socializing/connection time (which is so important to building community..... .. - *Beginner lesson:* I've seen so so many... ... I think it's really important to make make it as fun, inclusive, and encouraging as possible. Lots of movement, very little standing around, feeling of learning skills and success! - *Dancers bringing their friends: *This has been by far the biggest success for our local community and that I've heard over the years talking to other organizers... word of mouth. There are lots of strategies to encourage this (E.g., I heard of once dance that would provide a birthday cake to dancers who would have have their Bday party at the dance and bring friends). - *Re level of dance (as in card/figures): * This might just be me but I really don't mind simple dances as long as the music is AWESOME and there is good flow to them. Much better than wading through long teaching and/or confusion on the floor as the dance is too hard for the crowd. I could totally be wrong on this but I think for dances with lots of beginners.... I'd try to get everyone having as much success as possible, quick teaching, and awesome music. This also get's to Lex's point about the mental load. Don't want it to be overwhelming for new folks or their brains will shut off. - *Make it as much a social/happening/community space as possible:* Some people just come for the dancing. That's what they love. But for many, feeling a sense of community/belonging is important. And for newer folks, I think it can really help if the event feels like 'it's the place to be/really happenin/lots of great energy. It's interesting... I get way more excited about a dance if I know the energy is going to be jumpin in the crowd and that the caller will be making it as fun as possible. If it feels like it's 'not a happenin' place or if I feel unwelcome (has happened in various communities even as an experienced dancer), I'm not really interested in going back. There's lots of strategies to up the social/community/happenin' vibe. I helped create this resource a few years ago... it's a collection of flyers/posters from 57 different dance communities. Each piece of print material communicates a fair bit about how their event feels/or not... https://cdss.org/wp-content/uploads/resources/CDSS-inspiring-promo-material-2019.02.04.pdf - *Re goofy ... leading into joy*: I loved Lex and Chrissy's points on the value of goofyness and I think this directly relates to joy, laughter, and connection. These things make people feel good, build community and I think encourage people to come back. - *Julian's points: *I really liked Julian's points about listening/engaging youth, having a values statement (Ottawa worked hard on updating our mission/vision statement to capture this stuff) and yes yes yes to promoting that open to complimeents/complaints + deal with. Soooo great! And such great points from Jeff on the challenges youth face when joining committees. - *Re role terminology in contra dance: *Dana wrote so eloquently and I agree with all Dana said. Also, I was at the Quebec City contra dance, which is small but growing and joyful contra community and they are not only using the terms ladies and gents but interspersing them with 'hommes' et 'femmes' (men/women) coming from the French Canadian square dancing context (which has a LOT of young people engaged in certain communities). Helping to shift society through dance can be powerful in local contexts and I think it's important to also to appreciate dance communities for which these forms of inclusion haven't come up on the radar yet or their local societal context may be different. (And yes I know encouraging is needed there too!) I think of my many years doing Cape Breton square dancing and while they no longer use callers, you will VERY rarely see two gents dancing together. (In fact, I can't remember seeing it.) Yes, they are excluding certain people and at the same time, they are continuing traditions that have been in their communities for decades, they are bringing youth together with adults, and elders, they are connecting to their gaelic roots, etc. I'm not sure how to communicate this eloquently but I can appreciate that for those communities, that's how they currently celebrate their traditions and to push non-gendered dancing I think would alienate enough of the core community that their dances might not survive. I have been calling with Larks & Robins for a bit and have attended a positional calling workshop... attending another tomorrow in Syracuse! So I'm working on the shift while trying to appreciating each dance community for the positives they bring to their community. Thoughts on this? - *Re engaging youth... and young families: * I think it's fantastic re engaging youth. I've seen many folks focus on the college-aged community. At the same time, I haven't seen as much effort to engage folks with children in the contra dance community. While not adults choose to have children, adults tend to become less transient after college and are more likely to stay living in a community for a longer period of time. I'd love to chat about more strategies to engage folks in their 30-50s ... ... also thinking ahead to how older adults have more time to volunteer (i.e., not trying to get established in jobs, might even be retired) - *Re the intensity of contra dance: *I feel many of us who have been contra dancing for a long time forget how many of our accepted norms are sooooooo far from what the general public is used to. Looking strangers in the eye for long times, swinging closely with all sorts of people. Put on top of that some of the intense (even super sexy) feel of some contra dance bands and wow, I think that's likely a challenge for many new folks to overcome to feel comfortable. I'm not saying we should change these things but rather, acknowledge that this can be prettttty darn weird for new folks and figure out ways to make it easier for them. *So interesting re promo text:* I loved Joe's promo text he shared about their upcoming dance... .... that's totally the type of language that I think would draw folks in. soooo.... not sure why it's not happenin. I'd be curious what others think. I loved hearing about the dances down around Heitzso's way... .sounds like there are some really happenin' communities which is encouraging. Sautee Georgia sounds fascinating with it's family vibe. Signing off from Ottawa, Ontario. :) Emily Addison On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 9:33 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers < organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Jeff, > > I'm glad you're able to dig us into some of the particulars of the > subtopic about youth leadership in contra. > Certainly I agree that it is not as simple as I stated; my email was meant > as brief, high-level bullets, not sufficient instructions for implementing. > > I think your questions are good jumping-off points, so I'll do that! > > If I had to wager, I would say that your experience with youth dancers in > leadership may differ from ones that I've seen and experienced. > Like, the "I" in BIDA is "Intergenerational" with engaging dancers of all > ages right there as a primary goal; that alone is going to affect how you > and other BIDA leaders current and past engage with potential youth leaders. > And what I've seen in BIDA's policies, what you personally and advocate > for, and what I've experienced both as a dancer and a performer at your > series contrasts with some of the negative issues I've seen come up. > > So, by contrast, I draw upon experience both in dances I've been a regular > at, as well as discussions with peers and younger peers about goings-on > with various dances, in regards to how youth leaders are treated. > > You wrote: > " They're initially excited and propose things, but then get frustrated as > the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their proposals stick." > > Yeah, I think there's an experience gap that you allude to here and that's > real. > At the same time, it is definitely the responsibility for more experienced > leaders to mentor newer leaders, and that mentorship means: > 1. Explaining issues in a way that isn't discouraging. > 2. Not merely using explaining as a way to shut down suggestions. > > On that latter point, I've found that - probably more often than not - > initial suggestions both in contra dance and in my professional career > working in teams usually are not the final solution. > I'm sure I'm not saying anything you don't already know, but bringing it > into this conversation here. > Yeah, new leaders to a volunteer organization have a learning curve, and > their suggestions may need work. > But, _all suggestions_ I see as frequently needing work. > A healthy committee takes those suggestions and integrates them into > whatever ultimate decisions / policies / actions they take. (Again, I'm > sure you've experienced this, but for the purposes of leading to my next > point.) > > By contrast, what I've both seen and heard of from many youth leaders are > things like: > "Oh, Soandso has always done the website and that's the way they like it." > "There's no way we could implement Larks / Robins because too many older > dancers would hate it." > "Soandso has always done Treasurer" > "A special dance event would be too difficult" > etc. > > The summary being that, as you said, youth leaders come in excited with > new suggestions. Yes, they may need work. But instead of a committee coming > together to form a consensus, youth leaders are shut down. > And I think it's obvious how discouraging that can be. > > So, back to the purposes of this email discussion here, the suggestions I > would come for include: > 1. Come with a mindset of "how can we make this work / alter the idea to > make it work" rather than "how will this idea not work" > 2. Figure out a way to _try out_ ideas older members don't agree with. > 3. On a youth-led idea that older members don't think are practical, do > data gathering. Larks/Robins is a great example where practical data made > it clear to the many dances who chose to implement it, as, again, BIDA > certainly demonstrated, and my own dance in Amherst demonstrated. > 4. (In regards to your point B) Specifically solicit ideas from youth > leaders. Actively ask their opinions. Realize that experienced leaders have > an innate power imbalance and that is a big reason why new / younger > leaders don't speak up. > > " they don't feel like they've accomplished anything and don't feel > useful." > > 5. Set them up in areas of success. Even little stuff, like, "We had to > decide how to set up the fans in the room as we opened back up after the > pandemic shutdown" was an opportunity where our group could just ... let > newer+younger group members decide and do it with no need for > full-committee approval. (Jeff, I think this basically is your "giving > people responsibilities") > > 6. Let them fail a little. This is kind of a repeat of #2, but ... > mentoring new leaders means letting them make some mistakes. They need to > be able to take some risks. > 6a. When they fail, continue to encourage and frame that failure instead > as "trying something out and learning as a group". > > I think your last point is a good one, too. > There's a 20-something / 30ish led new Fusion dance in the Pioneer Valley. > And while one of the organizers has some significant committee experience, > they're one of the least in-charge-y types on that dance's committee. > > So, lots of potential lessons for the OP and other readers on the group, > and this email is hardly an exhaustive treatise on mentoring youth leaders. > > In short though, I have experienced and seen the dismissal of young > organizers as a repeat, chronic, and widespread issue in contra dance > organizations. > It will take active work from older and more experienced leaders to change > this. > > Best regards, > Julian > > On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:12 AM Jeff Kaufman <j...@alum.swarthmore.edu> > wrote: > >> On "Listen to youth, put them on your committee, and implement their >> suggestions", this is pretty tricky and is something I've seen several >> organizations get wrong. >> >> Let's say you're an established organization with a lot of >> institutional knowledge and a built-up system of how things are done, and >> you add an enthusiastic young dancer, musician, or caller to your board. >> They probably don't know much about how the organization works, and they're >> initially not going to know much about what needs doing. When they have >> ideas about how to do things differently they often won't understand the >> practical issues that led to things being the way they are. So you can >> easily get one of two dynamics: >> >> a. They're initially excited and propose things, but then get frustrated >> as the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their proposals stick. >> >> b. They stay quiet because they understand how much they don't know, and >> don't end up contributing much. >> >> Then, when their initial term is up they don't stay on because they don't >> feel like they've accomplished anything and don't feel useful. >> >> I've been the excited young person in this case, and can think of several >> other friends who have as well. In retrospect I think most of us wish we >> had said no to the invitation. >> >> I don't think the solution is as simple as "implement their suggestions", >> though: not every suggestion will be a good one (none of us, young or old, >> have only good ideas). >> >> What I've seen work well is giving people responsibility, especially in >> areas where they can quickly learn what makes the dance work. For example, >> if your dance has a person who does/oversees setup and/or cleanup, teach >> them how to do this. Get them filling out the end-of-dance financial >> sheets to figure out who gets what money. If you're putting on a new >> one-off event get them on a small committee with 1-2 other friendly >> organizers. Then when they propose changes they'll be better ones (less >> likely to propose something infeasible) and the changes are more likely to >> be well received (in a do-ocracy people respect the people they see putting >> in work). >> >> There's also a completely different path, where the enthusiastic young >> person gets together a group of people and starts something independent. >> They can make their own mistakes, without making more work for people on >> the committee. If they want to make their new dance gender-free, half >> squares, all open bands + open calling, or something else that might get a >> lot of pushback at an existing dance, they can just go ahead and do it. >> When these work well they draw a new crowd, pulling from their own networks >> instead of mostly drawing people away from the existing dance, and you get >> a healthier community with more options. >> >> Jeff >> >> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:49 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers < >> organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >>> Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people. >>> >>> I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to: >>> 1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their >>> suggestions. >>> 2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies >>> follow. >>> 3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or >>> complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest >>> reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance >>> form) is unhandled and ignored complaints. >>> >>> In dance, >>> Julian Blechner >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers < >>> organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> >>>> *“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors, perhaps the biggest >>>> difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the >>>> type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm >>>> tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the >>>> people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.* >>>> *Lex Spoon”* >>>> >>>> Hear, hear! >>>> >>>> (And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and >>>> inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it, >>>> even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these >>>> dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but definitely >>>> on the silly side of joy. >>>> >>>> I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences >>>> openly and nonjudgmentally. What a gift! >>>> >>>> Chrissy Fowler >>>> Belfast Maine >>>> *Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of >>>> finally getting winter weather in March)* >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers@lists.sharedweight.net >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers@lists.sharedweight.net >>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >>> >> _______________________________________________ > Organizers mailing list -- organizers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >
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