On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> All, Running a training program for EJB's gives me a different
> perspective when dealing with EJB application vendors like Orion. My
> experience is that they (expensive vendors like BEA ) offer
> institutions like mine free licences and trainers in the hopes that
> newly educated programmers would evangelize their products. I have
> repeatedly asked for assistance in training engineers in EJB's using
> the Orion product. They have refused to answer. All we ask is that
> they provide us with a single license so that we may set up an
> interactive training site for distance education for a "Java and the
> Internet Course".
Couple of things: why are you training programmers in a specification --
and gearing towards a given container? Doesn't that sound slightly
counter-productive? (In theory, the container shouldn't matter. That
doesn't quite hold true in practice, but the situation is improving,
provided trainers don't spend all their time teaching people how to write
EJBs for a specific contain- oops.)
Are you selling this course? If you are, it sounds like you'd need to
purchase a license, indeed. I would think that Orion's extremely low cost
would be a non-deterrent, but your organization certainly has to choose
where it spends its dollars, I suppose... and I'd always wonder why you
demanded a free license when a normal license was so inexpensive.
> If they truly wish to educate java-programers in Orion, you'd think
> they'd jump at this. We charge no money for training, and we benefit
> the independant learner in the ways of programming EJB's with Orion.
See above re: "Orion" v. "J2EE" -- J2EE is a lot more productive in the
long run.
> This course is open to all, but Orion's lack of response means none of
> us can gain from it.
Why? I don't see why they should be expected to respond. Their "response'
has already been made: "We'll provide an awesome app server for less than
anyone else with a comparable product." Now you expect them to bend over
backwards for you, too, so you can teach programmers how to write to a
specific platform instead of the spec to which ALL similar platforms are
supposed to conform?
> If you would like to learn more about the mystery of EJB'S, LET ORION
> KNOW. We need your help.
They're mysteries?
> Mike Van
> C.E.O. JUGerNaut
>
> >---- Original Message ---
> >From: Kemp Randy-W18971 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet??
> >
> >
> > I don't knock the higher priced products, and they do have the lion's share of the
>market, and many large companies run big applications on them. Personally, I feel as
>many low price (Orion) and open source (jboss, etc.) mature, more people will ride
>that path. Look at the history of Apache, and now 60 % of the world's servers run
>it. Developers see that the low priced and open source options are maturing and
>proving themselves. It's just a matter of time.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Konstantin Polyzois
> >To: Orion-Interest
> >Sent: 2/13/01 6:56 AM
> >Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet??
> >
> >"Weblogic (and the high priced products like Websphere) are great..."
> >
> >Speaking as someone who has done development using Websphere (3.0 &
> >3.02):
> >It sucks! Don't use it for anything but JSP or servlets. It has so many
> >flaws that I don't even want to get in to them!!
> >
> >/korre
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Kemp Randy-W18971
> >To: Orion-Interest
> >Sent: 2001-02-12 13:58
> >Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet??
> >
> >
> >Weblogic (and the high priced products like Websphere) are great, if you
> >want to pay the price. They come with nice tools like front end gui's,
> >good documentation, paid support, etc. But if you look for the opinions
> >of developers who have used these products, and compared them to Orion,
> >jboss, etc., they would say the EJB capacies are no better then the
> >other high priced products. In order of ranking, here's how I look at
> >the other products.
> >1 Orion -- This product is ready now, but I haven't seen anyone from
> >this list run a Sears store on it.
> >2. Jboss (www.jboss.org) -- The founders are very bright, have five
> >hundred developers on the projects, have EJB heavies contributing to the
> >list, and it's a very easy to use product. Personally, even though it
> >is ready for production now, I would wait for it to mature a bit more.
> >It's like a fine wine -- drink it now, and it is OK, or allow it to age
> >a bit then drink it (like jboss 3.0 final).
> >3. Openejb (www.openejb.org) - this project has a very bright and well
> >known person heading it, and it is slated to be intergrated with Tomcat
> >and Apache. It has yet to prove itself, as it is not yet ready for
> >production release. But it has good future promise.
> >4. Jonas (www.evidian.com/jonas) - This is a good product, but it is not
> >as advanced as the other two open source products and I don't think they
> >have as many people behind them.
> >5. Enhydra enterprise (www.enhydra.org). If you like the enhydra
> >application server, this product has potential. But it is not
> >production ready yet and it intergrates with the jonas server.
> > In summary, Orion is here now but can it run Sears? Jboss is ready
> >but I would let it mature a bit more for production environments.
> >Openejb and Enhydra have great potential, but they are not ready yet and
> >have to prove themselves. Jonas is OK but I prefer the other open
> >source alternatives.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Anthony W. Marino
> >To: Orion-Interest
> >Sent: 2/11/01 9:06 AM
> >Subject: Re: Any news from Orion yet??
> >
> >On another note, can you and/or someone, qualify/quantify what you mean
> >by
> >the following previously made statement :
> >
> >"For the most part, Orion is still very much ahead of the pack, and the
> >speed is stil EXCELLENT."
> >?
> >
> >In the Apache Tomcat list I asked the following question:
> >
> >"Can someone suggest to me what Apache and/or other OpenSource products
> >could
> >be integrated to compete with functionally and/or considered in the same
> >
> >category as BEA WebLogic?
> >I don't necessarily need all of what BEA has to offer at this time,
> >however,
> >I would like to know, generally, what it would take to get there without
> >the
> >big $$$$$ price tag."
> >
> >Thank You,
> >Anthony
> >
> >On Monday 15 January 2001 15:20, you wrote:
> >> On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Jason Boehle wrote:
> >> > WL6 has support for EARs. They also support all of the EJB 2.0 spec
> >> > except for dependent objects. In fact, I am currently using WL6 for
> >> > development instead of Orion, due to the apparent lack of
> >development
> >> > going on in the Orion team on EJB 2.0. I had suggested to my boss
> >that
> >> > we use Orion, as I had been lurking and following it for several
> >months,
> >> > and saw that it always met the latest specs first, etc. - now I feel
> >dumb
> >> > for doing so, as they haven't had a new release in several months...
> >>
> >> Of course, this is a little unfair - weblogic hadn't had a new release
> >for
> >> several months, either. They've just had a major release recently,
> >which
> >> makes it seem like they're more active than Orion, when that's not
> >> necessarily the case. It might be, but that's not implied by the
> >situation
> >> at present.
> >>
> >> For the most part, Orion is still very much ahead of the pack, and the
> >> speed is stil EXCELLENT. While I'm very much looking forward to a new
> >> round of released bug fixes, I'm still waiting for some things to
> >shake
> >> out before I abandon ship.
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Santosh Kumar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:57 AM
> >> > To: Orion-Interest
> >> > Subject: Re: Any news from Orion yet??
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Hi kevin,
> >> > As far as i have known WL5.1 or <, there is no concept of
> >ear
> >> > files, does 6.0 include
> >> > that. Doesn't the J2EE mandate (I am not sure!) the use of EAR =
> >WAR +
> >> > JAR + CAR(or JAR)?
> >> > To deploy the JPS1.1.1 on Orion, it is a piece of cake, while
> >deploying
> >> > on WLS, i have to
> >> > unpack the EAR files and dis-integrate them which is contrary to the
> >> > essence of packaging the ear files,
> >> > Even meddling with the ugly weblogic.properties frustrates one and
> >all.
> >> > Is that true with all WLS users?
> >> >
> >> > Orion is a neat impl of J2EE, is WLS6.0?
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Santosh.
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: Kevin Duffey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:07 PM
> >> > Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet??
> >> >
> >> > > I am not one to advocate another product, but WL6 looks nice. It
> >is
> >> > > easy
> >> >
> >> > to
> >> >
> >> > > work with compared to WL5.1. Orion is still the best. JBoss looks
> >very
> >> > > interesting as well.
> >> > >
> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> >Neville
> >> > > > Burnell
> >> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 2:26 PM
> >> > > > To: Orion-Interest
> >> > > > Cc: Orion-Interest
> >> > > > Subject: FW: Any news from Orion yet??
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Yes - pls Orion people, publish some news & update Orion ...
> >> > > >
> >> > > > We are looking to buy at least 3 licences over the next few
> >weeks if
> >> > > > everything is ok
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Cheers
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Neville Burnell
> >> > > > Business Manager Software
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > From: Duffey, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> > > > Sent: Sunday, 14 January 2001 12:45 PM
> >> > > > To: Orion-Interest
> >> > > > Subject: Any news from Orion yet??
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi all,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Has anyone heard from the team lately? I know I saw a post about
> >a
> >> > > > month or
> >> > > > so ago. Its been about 3 or 4 months since anything has changed
> >on
> >> > > > their site, if not longer and now its getting me worried. I can
> >> > > > understand them
> >> > > > trying to organize the company, but did production stop on the
> >app
> >> > > > server? I
> >> > > > wish there was some news once every couple of weeks or so from
> >them
> >> > > > on their
> >> > > > site letting us know what is happening.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks.
> >>
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------
> >> Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
> >
>
-----------------------------------------------------------
Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
