Michael, Wonderful! And thanks, I will check out your link.
John On Sep 19, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Michael Herman wrote: > John, this line... "They remind us of what we in the west have only recently > begun to realize, that everything in this universe is just a flow of energy, > and it's all connected." > > ...reminds me of another story that illustrates the difference in these > views. a friend in india once remarked on how strange it seemed to him that > when we in the west ask for directions we want to have someone tell us the > whole route. his own, more indian, way prefers instead to be told just the > next move or two, to move him in the right direction and then when he gets > farther up the road, he gets to meet and ask someone else for another nudge > in the right direction. says something, i think, about popping in and out of > a stable self vs. being in that flow. and reminds me of harrison's > suggestion, from the beginning, that action planning be about "immediate next > steps" in each of the important areas identified and discussed in a meeting > or event. > > and given the number of references you've shared today, john... you might > enjoy this: > http://www.michaelherman.com/cgi/wiki.cgi?InvitingOrganizationEmerges ...i > think your five acts of siva might fit in very nicely. > > m > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > 312-280-7838 (mobile) > > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://ManorNeighbors.com > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 2:38 PM, John Watkins <[email protected]> wrote: > Harrison, > > I've been listening and learning. Then all at once, I felt an urge to > contribute! Emergence in action. > One of my favorite ways to think about what you say below about equilibrium > being "but a momentary pause on the way to something else..." comes from > twelfth century (CE) Kashmir Shaivism, in the writing of Abhinavagupta and > more succinctly in that of Kshemaraja, one of his students. Talking about > how we enact at our own level of consciousness the "five acts of siva" > (creation, maintenance, dissolution, cloaking or forgetfulness, and revealing > or grace), they refer to the tendency we have to see reality in terms of a > whole bunch of dichotomies (a form of forgetfulness or cloaking), mostly > having to do with seeing objects and subjects as somehow separate from each > other, including ourselves, and as fixed "things." They remind us of what we > in the west have only recently begun to realize, that everything in this > universe is just a flow of energy, and it's all connected. When we hold onto > the idea of that thing out there (or the "I am that" in our inner universe), > we exaggerate the "maintenance" part of the cycle and become attached to or > averse to those "things" as something permanent. They ask us to use our > "yoga" to understand this deep sense of reality, and "reabsorb" or "dissolve" > those "objects" back into the flow of consciousness, of energy, and thus move > beyond the suffering or misery that we experience when we are attached to the > "thingness" of reality. We can then participate with more blissfulness in > the play of reality, and even enjoy the pleasure of experiencing the > "cloakedness" of our material level of experience, so long as we understand > it is just one form of experience. > One of my own very personal experiences with things being "but a momentary > pause on the way to something else..." comes from my backpacking in high > mountains, where there are lots of imposing boulderfields to negotiate. I > must place my boot squarely on each rock I pass over, carefully, > deliberately, and trust it 100% to hold my weight, and yet, each boulder has > the potential to roll under my feet and take me for a very unpleasant ride, > if I am attached to it staying put, or fearful of it rolling. If I commit > 100% to being on it when I am, and yet am already moving on to the next, a > happy dynamic flow ensues that turns a field of death into a golden brick > road. > A little poetic, but very real. > BTW, the tantrikas say that breath is the flow of universal energy, of the > goddess into your being, and back into the goddess. And "she will breathe > you until she is done." > > John > > > On Sep 19, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Harrison Owen wrote: > >> John – where have you been hiding? It is fun to have you here! A thought >> about equilibrium – that it is but a momentary pause on the way to something >> else. We do like stasis – standing still. Gives us a sense of permanence, >> regularity, control. But unfortunately, as I experience it, life is a >> process, a flow, a becoming. And the stasis we experience is but a momentary >> snapshot along the way. Part of our problem, I think is that we become >> prisoners of our language. It is very difficult to talk about “flow” – we >> can only speak of “moments of flow” – and those moments then become (in our >> language) things in themselves. Shift the language to music/sound or >> visuals/video and the situation becomes more manageable – but then many feel >> that we have lost precision. Oh well – choices. >> >> And where does Open Space fit in all of this? I think one of the wonderful >> things that happens is that the people become aware of the flow which moves >> beyond (and around) their experience of the static things…the rules, >> regulations, formal structure, etc. A little poetic perhaps – but I watch >> organizations learning to breathe again, instead of gasping for breath which >> is what usually happens when you are told when and how to breathe. >> >> Harrison >> >> Harrison Owen >> 7808 River Falls Dr. >> Potomac, MD 20854 >> USA >> >> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer) >> Camden, Maine 20854 >> >> Phone 301-365-2093 >> (summer) 207-763-3261 >> >> www.openspaceworld.com >> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website) >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST >> Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Watkins >> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 1:46 PM >> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >> Subject: Re: [OSList] Designing an OS way >> >> Great questions, Michael! >> >> I think when I am feeling optimistic (most of the time) I see OST as >> creating one of those "far from equilibrium states" that Prigogine and >> Stengers talk about as enabling new orders to emerge; however, in less >> sanguine times, I could also imagine OST as just a "subsystem fluctuation" >> enabling larger system stability. But I think that most of our larger >> systems these days are exhibiting something like either disequilibrium or >> bifurcation points, so maybe OST is able to restructure the system >> architecture so fundamentally that a new order could emerge. Weick talks >> about that restructuring of the system architecture in order to change the >> "flows" of energy in the system. I think Bateson referred to one kind of >> larger system disequilibrium as an "uptight system," where at least one of >> the "variables" is "pinned" at its upper or lower limits of its range of >> flexibility, resulting in that rigidity rippling through the whole system. >> Rigid systems change more easily, but not usually in a very pretty way: >> chaotic bursts, turbulence, tumbling into chaos, new orders emerging >> spontaneously... >> >> John >> >> On Sep 19, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Michael Herman wrote: >> >> >> yes, thanks, john. and... where does os practice drop into either of these? >> in bateson terms, it seems open space meetings would be an alternative >> state that organizations are unconsciously working to prevent? how does >> something like working in an open space way become part of the equilbrium >> state that is then automatically preserved by continually returning from >> anything that's alternative to that way of being in organization? in lemke >> terms, there seems a place for operating in open space, but will it always >> require what sounds like a crisis, choice-point to be helpful? how does >> working in an open space way become normal in systems that are storied in >> this way? m >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Michael Herman >> Michael Herman Associates >> 312-280-7838 (mobile) >> >> http://MichaelHerman.com >> http://ManorNeighbors.com >> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 12:06 PM, John Watkins <[email protected]> wrote: >> Michael, >> >> I think Gregory Bateson addressed the question of equilibrium most >> eloquently a long time ago in his great book, Steps to an Ecology of Mind! >> And I've seen some great analysis of it in Jay Lemke's book, Textual >> Politics. Let's see if I can find the relevant quotes... >> >> Bateson: Systems “…maintain a dynamic equilibrium or steady state… [through] >> maximiz[ing] the chances against the maximization of any single simple >> variable” (124). “The steady state is maintained by continual >> nonprogressive change” (125). What Bateson noticed was that allowable >> levels of fluctuations in some subset of a larger system were used to create >> relative stability in the larger system, but that those fluctuations never >> led to fundamental shifts in the architecture of the system, as they >> continually shifted out of and then returned to a kind of dynamic >> equilibrium. It is a “corrective action… brought about by [the awareness >> of] difference” (Bateson, 1972:381). A social system “…does not elect the >> steady state; it prevents itself from staying in any alternative state” >> (381). Or, “[T]he constancy and survival of some larger system is maintained >> by changes in the constituent subsystem” (Bateson, 1972:339). >> >> Lemke calls that a “meta-stable non-equilibrium” (Lemke, 1995:11). He goes >> on to argue that as social systems develop, they become more ordered and >> differentiated, increasingly complex, and as such, demonstrate >> irreversibility. At some point, in various layers of their hierarchy >> (hierarchy in systems theory is not the same as hierarchy of authority or >> knowledge, e.g., bureaucracy; it is a concept of scale, in scope, time, or >> space), open, complex systems begin to demonstrate non-symmetry, or the >> possibility of bifurcation (branching, “choice” points), due to the >> amplified, interacting oscillations of various sub-systems. Bifurcation in >> larger systems can enable larger out-of-equilibrium fluctuations in, or >> unpredictable interactions between, sub-systems to result in evolutionary, >> or adaptive, change in the larger system... >> >> Does this help? >> >> John >> >> >> >> On Sep 19, 2011, at 9:36 AM, Michael Herman wrote: >> >> >> i want to echo florian's appreciation for your story, john, thank you. and >> i have a question about "equilibrium." >> >> in financial markets, gene fama won a nobel prize for his theory of >> "efficient" markets, suggesting that markets always reflected all current >> information, immediately returning to "equilbrium" after every news release, >> so that above-normal returns were not possible. many now question or >> dismiss this. >> >> so, in a world that is always moving, what does the theory you described so >> nicely have to say about equilibrium? does it then lead into questions >> about locality and "self" ...the department might be in equilibrium but the >> company is falling apart, or vice versa... so the boundaries of the "self" >> that is being invited to organize or re-organize really matter. >> >> mostly i'm just wondering if you can say more to map the open systems, >> thermodynamics, and esp equilibrium story to what we have all seen happening >> in organizations and open spaces. is "equilibrium" the same as "normal?" >> >> m >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Michael Herman >> Michael Herman Associates >> 312-280-7838 (mobile) >> >> http://MichaelHerman.com >> http://ManorNeighbors.com >> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
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