When I posted on Facebook about it the other day, another Microsoft friend 
noted that he was going to be the product manager for EF, but commented that he 
managed “to dodge that bullet”.



Dr Greg Low

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From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2016 1:42 PM
To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Entity Framework was born out of many attempts to solve the DAL tier to enable 
developers to have to avoid talking to DBA's directly. The amount of churn its 
gone through and the level of pain it rewards doesn't seem imho to justify its 

As for forgotten child. I can't speak to the program management level but when 
I was in the product management side of things we avoided that clump of code as 
much as possible. It was too hard to build a narrative around and even when we 
managed to wrangle the mess into a coherent strategy they'd turn and flip the 
table over with "i have a better idea on how to solve this pattern.." and sure 
as your google search for "CRUD EntityFramework" the entire blogosphere would 
leave you in the corner, confused and wondering aimlessly as if to say out loud 
"I trusted them, they...they have cheated me for the last time".

I recently watched a Unity3D dev switch to using web-centric .net dev, and he 
died a miserable painful death on Entity Framework code-first. To quote "I went 
to use the migration strategy it left me a broken man, it just doesn't work as 
its advertised".

Its time to put this and PRISM in the "GitHub" graveyard. Say out loud you 
support it but block any future pull requests.

Scott Barnes

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Craig van Nieuwkerk 
<crai...@gmail.com<mailto:crai...@gmail.com>> wrote:
To give more info, 99% of the CUD was done via NHibernate. For simple select 
queries like for lookup lists was also done via NHibernate, using the built in 
caching and Redis cache, but more complicated queries were straight SQL and 


On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Craig van Nieuwkerk 
<crai...@gmail.com<mailto:crai...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Not EF but have used NHibernate in application, in conjunction with optimised 
SQL where required, and easily supported 1000+ users. But it is very easy to 
stuff it up and find you can't support 5 simultaneous users.

Even StackOverflow before it used Dapper used LinqToSql. Of course, they had to 
optimise and go to Dapper but the LinqToSql version still supported heaps of 


On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:22 PM, David Apelt 
<d...@signmanager.com.au<mailto:d...@signmanager.com.au>> wrote:
Thanks everyone for their contributions to my original questions.   I am a 
little surprised about how poor people’s real world experience has been with 
the EF and other ORMs.

A little poll;

Is anyone successfully using EF in a production environment for a non-trivial 
application?  And if yes, then why has yours worked where others have failed.

Dave A

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